Strange video output on apple iie on some games

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Strange video output on apple iie on some games
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Hi Everyone, i have a early board apple iie that for the most part runs great and i didn't even know i had a problem until i started running more and more games on it and then i started seeing that some games had graphics issues and some did not.  I thought this might have been related to the extended memory card, and so picked up a second card used to test and both cards show the same issue. 

 

When i run the system health check it comes back as system is normal and no issues.  (when i used a bad extended card it reports DIM 1 on that card) so it does seem like the extended cards are fine.

 

as for some working games, ultima IV works althought it does freeze up at some points and could be cause its a cracked version.

Another working game which works flawlessly is Night Mission Pinball.

 

So here is california games, and the games winter and summer edition do this also.  NOTE these games are 128K i believe so that could be part of it, but i have the extra 64k on the add on cards, so i would expect the memory requirement not to be the issue.  

 

I took screenshots of the issue and can provide more if needed.  any ideas?  thanks.

 

-m

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Reminds me a bit the issue I

Reminds me a bit the issue I had with my Apple // - see this thread: Apple //e picture issue | Applefritter

 

In my case it was the 166 shift register but to be honest it could have been a memory module as well. Can you take a picture of some inverse text as in the thread above? It may be that there is a line missing and you just don't notice - as I did. 

 

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I suspect that you have an

I suspect that you have an issue with  HRG modes, likely caused by an 80-col card. Please photograph the card in your EXP slot. If it is a version with a jumper for HRG, then you need to invert the state of the jumper (remove if present, otherwise add). 

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Just in case in matters, its
Just in case in matters, its a 1982 board with a Reactive Micro enhancement kit installed.

 

I have 2 separete cards, one is a RAM80 which was the original expansion board and it has no jumper on it but i had the same issues identical on both boards.

the second board is as shown, its a 607-0103 and if i don't have the jumper removed it doesn't even post. I get a few weird characters on the screen, but once i removed the jumper it works as expected.  I use the double apple key diagnostic and it comes back normal without errors.

 

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I actually saw that article
I actually saw that article and followed along intently about a week ago, but i can verify i have the RMD flash drive and i have no issue with inverted key displays on the apple itself.  In that mode it looks completely normal.. And as i mentioned i can play night mission pinball and the display of ultima iv looks great also.  I can build a diag. disk as i have adtpro and the SScard.
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Magnificat wrote:I actually
Magnificat wrote:

I actually saw that article and followed along intently about a week ago, but i can verify i have the RMD flash drive and i have no issue with inverted key displays on the apple itself.  In that mode it looks completely normal.. And as i mentioned i can play night mission pinball and the display of ultima iv looks great also.  I can build a diag. disk as i have adtpro and the SScard.[

 

Sorry, are you saying that you sorted the issue?

 

If you want good cracked disk images, go to the 4am library:

https://archive.org/details/apple_ii_library_4am

 

You can use ADTP or a virtual disk and Copy ][+ with bit copy to make physical media of any disk in the 4am collection. 

 

The CA Games series should only need 64K. Try running the games that have issues without a card in the EXP slot. IMO those games were always terrible, too, but to each their own. 

 

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I believe he is saying that

I believe he is saying that some games - like UltimaIV - look ok and some don't.

 

Sorry that my suggestion did not apply. I am not super-competent when it comes to Apple //e but can you play with the various resolutions via Basic and see if the issue is linked to a specific one? 

Others will be able to help more but I know that you can invoke a few graphical modes via Basic:

 

GR: low resolution Graphics mode (40x40)

HGR: High resolution graphics mode (280x160)

HGR2: Full Screen high resolution mode (280x192)

 

On a Basic manual you can find simple instructions to draw some lines and see if everything checks out. I believe there is another higher resolution mode available but I should look into that. I am looking at "Basic Programming Reference Manual" which you can find on Asimov here: Index of /pub/apple_II/documentation/programming/basic/ (asimov.net) along with many other documents that may help.

 

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I will pull the expansion

I will pull the expansion card and try it out and report back..   I do have a lot of the cracked files currently and have made several some using adtPro (thanks for the link as I am always finding ones i am missing and want), some games i made include the ultima and night mission.  These other ones are new in box games i purchased and no the games are not great (responding to another poster) for california games and even the summer/winter series, etc  not the best at least on apple.  i have the apple emulators also. 

 

i do have some experience with these old computers as I have been repairing C64s for the last couple months so i should be able to perform stuff under direction on fixing this thing.  its strange cause most everything else seems to work.. I started writing assembly code using the assembly lines book and got through about 100 pages or so and can get them to work using merlin on the 80 column card and programs i write work.  just not sure, maybe its some logic chip acting up.   hopefully we can figure it out and thanks to all who have offered suggestions.

 

anyway, i have a scope, logic probe, dc power supply, desoldering iron and plenty of sockets...  the apple has all or most chips in sockets already...

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From memory, California Games

From memory, California Games is Double Hi-Res (i.e. requires 128K) whereas Summer and Winter Games only require 64K (Hi-Res). Ultima V also only requires 64K (and uses Hi-Res graphics).

 

It does sound like you may have an issue with your expansion RAM, maybe something the inbuilt test is missing. You could try the Apple //e Dealer Diagnostics (or one of the other //e specific diagnostic programs) to do a more rigourous  test of the expansion RAM.

 

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My old  "non apple" expansion

My old  "non apple" expansion board was seen as defective by a few test programs but I did not have issues with it - I didn't know some games required 128K so I only tested with Appleworks. 

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I think Polymorh69 points in

I think Polymorh69 points in the right direction.

For the games that required 128 Ko, you have to put the jumper on the 80 columns expansion card in order for them to work properly. You mention the Apple doesn't boot with the jumper, which is not a good sign.

What revision of motherboard do you have ? Only rev B (part number 820-0064-B znd above) supports double hi-res.

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amauget wrote:I think
amauget wrote:

I think Polymorh69 points in the right direction.

For the games that required 128 Ko, you have to put the jumper on the 80 columns expansion card in order for them to work properly. You mention the Apple doesn't boot with the jumper, which is not a good sign.

What revision of motherboard do you have ? Only rev B (part number 820-0064-B znd above) supports double hi-res.

 

I mentioned that earlier, regarding the jumper. I had forgotten that the pre rev-b mainboards have that issue, so that is another possible culprit. 

 

Of course, IMO, those are some of the worst gamex released for the system. Epyx shovelware. It's wrthwhile to pot a toggle switch on leads to that umper and mount it on the back of the system, as when it is enabled, other 80 col card modes cannot work. 

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The board is a 820-0064-A 

The board is a 820-0064-A  1982 board...  So sounds like the double hi-res just isn't supported and why the graphics are strange but the diagnostics come back healthy...    Thanks for checking, I might still try the jumper idea from another member here after the game is running and see if it helps but i have a picture of the board on my phone and i can verify its a Rev. A board.  Old model with brown/beige keys....

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Magnificat wrote:The board is
Magnificat wrote:

The board is a 820-0064-A  1982 board...  So sounds like the double hi-res just isn't supported and why the graphics are strange but the diagnostics come back healthy...    Thanks for checking, I might still try the jumper idea from another member here after the game is running and see if it helps but i have a picture of the board on my phone and i can verify its a Rev. A bo

 

Your system does not support the mode.

 

https://downloads.reactivemicro.com/Documentation/Manuals/Apple%20II%20Extended%2080-Column%20Text%20Card%20Supplement.pdf

 

Page (PDF: 23/72; real book, p.11)

 

I am not aware of a logic board modification to corect this--Apple's policy was to r/r the whole board--but I suppose it is possible. I might be willing to swap a Rev B for your A, just to have aother rev A spare. There's no particular benefit to the Rev A, FWTIW, I simply have a lot of later rev boards and like to have some of every revision possible, for testing software and hardware against them. 

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