One of my retro machines is a Mac Classic with 4 Meg DRAM, 40Meg HD, and Asante SCSI EN/SC Adapter. I used to own an SE that I bought new. On ebay the SE seems to command a high price because of the signatures inside the case. So I settled for a Classic.
I have installed the webkit images and I can't get fetch or internews to work outside of my intranet. I can use fetch to connect to a a PC FTP server on my intranet. If I use mactcp ping I can ping the comcast DNS machines, ftp.apple.com, news.comcast.net. etc. I tried making the classic be a DMZ in my linksys router setup but that didn't help either. Maybe these applications are just too old. Usually if ping works and there isn't a port issue, things will work.
I'm running system 6.07. and I used the 1.4.5 network installer.
I finally made a big step forward with my mac classic. The bottom line is to co-exist with modern ISPs, mactcp needs to be updated. I ran into a number of issues I thought I should share.
1. mactcp 2.06 needs to be patched to become mactcp 2.1. Just search the web for mactcp 2.1 and you will find the patch.
2. You need a clean copy of mactcp 2.06 to use the patch.
3. The patch may fail with error code 50 right near the end. Not sure why but it seems to be a non-issue.
4. Ignore some university websites that say you need a 68030 Mac or system 7.x. The patch works with my classic running 6.07.
5. If you want to keep your orginal mactcp file move it out of the system folder. I made the mistake of keeping a "copy of mactcp" in my system folder. Since "c" comes before "m", the system was loading the older non-patched version of mactcp.
So far I can use fetch, eudora, and internews with the patch.
The signatures inside the case are most certainly NOT the reason the SE fetches more than Classics on EBAY. The Classic is on par with the SE, if not better since the Classic has System 6 built into ROM. But SE's can technically be upgraded to a much faster SE/30 (which is faster than a Classic II even), which is why the SE might fetch more than a Classic. But truly, I myself would never buy an SE in order to upgrade it to an SE/30, since SE/30's are commonly sold on EBAY. And even if you did get an SE on EBAY, who could say when you could find a motherboard (at any price) to upgrade it!
So I myself think people are foolish to pay more for a SE than a Classic. And even though I like the case design of the Classic and Classic II far better than the SE or SE/30, I still prefer the SE/30 because it is the absolute fastest and most upgradable compact made made.
(Sorry to get a bit off topic, but I wanted to comment about the "signatures" you mentioned in your opening post.)
I really don't understand what you are getting at. You are saying the SE commands a higher price because it can be upgraded with an-impossible-to-find SE30 board?
My reasoning is both sellers in the auctions I lost made a point of mentioning/photographing the signatures. One auction I lost was for an SE with 800K floppy, 20 Meg HD. It went for over $225. The Classic I won had a 40 Meg HD and a personal Laserwriter. I paid less than $90. It did cost me another $70 to replace the printer scanner motor.
First of all, SE/30 logic boards are not "impossible to find" on EBAY. I saw one sell for under $50 on EBAY within the last 2 months. And even if you cannot find a logic board alone for sale on EBAY, you can talk to sellers of SE/30 machines to see if they will part with just the logic board. In cases where the SE/30 machine being sold doesn't boot or has a vertical line or other screen anomaly (analog board problem), you can often get the SE/30 logic board for a great price.
Secondly, the "SE" stands for System Expansion. Even though the Classic was released AFTER the SE, the Classic isn't expandable like the SE. Even if you don't want to put in an SE/30 logic board (or can't find one), there are still many other upgrade options for an SE that are not available for a Classic.
Thirdly, just because an EBAY seller makes mention of something doesn't mean it's true/valid or of critical importance. Indeed, most sellers put very misleading comments on their auctions in order to drive up the price. How many times do you see the word "RARE" used in Auctions on EBAY, even when that same item is found on EBAY almost every week, if not every single day? Do a little research on the signatures and you will find they are not rare, but actually appear in most compact 68k Macs!
Fourthly, I still like the case design of the Classic best, of all compact Macs from the 128k through the Classic II. It just looks sexy to me. (I'm no fan of the Color Classic's case though). And assuming you don't need upgrade options, as you mention, the Classic is a really good buy on EBAY. Even though there are reasons that drive up the cost of SE's (relative to Classics), those reasons are irrelevant to many people. I still think the Classic is a fine machine, and I absolutely love the fact it has System 6 in ROM!
Happy "Classic" Macing!
In your original post it sounded like the logic board was very hard to come by. I agree with you about ebay but that doesn't mean the buyers won't pay more than they should. For example, nothing against the gentleman, but the guy that paid $2500 for a NIB Apple IIc is an example. As soon as he opened the box his IIc lost at least $2000 in value.
I'm probably up to $300 now that I added a CD drive, mem expansion, and Asante Ethernet SCSI adapter. If I had won the SE, it would have cost more for the same config and I still wouldn't have the Personal LW.
I know about the SE's capabilties, I used to own one. My first mac was an SE, I would have prefered the SE, but I am perfectly happy with the Classic.
So in knowing the capabilities of both machines I assumed the signatures were a big part of the 4x price premium I saw. Thanks for pointing out the other reasons for the price difference.
A future project for me may just be a PowerPC Color Classic. Maybe next winter.
Happy mac-ing to you too!
$90 for a Classic? Wow! I paid $5 for a Classic II with an Imagewriter II in 2002 or 2003... how times have changed. Makes me want to hold onto my Newton.
Yikes, these folks are nuts.
I could see buying an SE for the analog board in order to fix an SE/30 but that is nuts. The local Goodwill used to get compact Macs now and then. A Classic w/KB and mouse $10. Have to admit I'm partial to the smooth shape of the Classic vs the SE as well. I think the CC is an aquired taste.
I had a batch of SE's and Classics at our garage sale with KB's for $10 a couple of years ago. No takers.
Fyi, Applied Engineering sold an accelerator card for the Classic which clipped over the 68000 chip I have it in a box in the workshop. Don't waste your money on one....
The Classic is quite fast for it's time running OS 6 though I remember having better luck with the Asante SCSI ethernet adaptors running OS 7.
As for signatures, plenty of older Macs had them from the SE, SE/30, Mac Portable, the WOZ Apple II GS, I'll have to check but the IIsi etc. Are they rare or valuable? Hmm I have some semi damp land in Florida if you are interested....
Just looking on eBay out of curiosity, these people are crazy. I think I have a case of dual battery chargers and 2400 baud modems for Portables in the workshop maybe I should go on eBay... yeah right that is nuts.
Granted I might have sprung a grand for a TAM....
With ebay the price is determined by what people will pay. I spent $90 for a classic that came with lots of software (word, excel, word perfect) and a laserwriter LS. Turns out the laserwriter was broken and I needed to buy a scanner motor. I also bought an Asante Ethernet Adapter. So I'm into the mac for a bit over $200.
But I have a perfectly working Mac and laserwriter (who's output rivals my modern laser printers) and I'm happy.
That's what I like about vintage computing. I have spent very little money (less than a car payment) and have a Mac Classic, a Vaxstation 4000 VLC, an Apple II+, and an Apple IIe.
I was in Vegas recently and could have spent that much for one hour of "entertainment"
The other thing I should mention is I had zero replies about my original TCPIP issue which I solved on my own.
But I seem to have uncovered a few experts that know everything about the value of old Macs.
Hopefully all of us learned something!
Oh yeah, I forgot about the CD drive plus a new analog card so I'm closer to $300. But I'm still happy
With EBAY, the price is but isn't determined by what people will pay. It's not so simple.
You see most sellers, especially those selling classic Macs (which interest us on this site), over-inflate their price on the first listing. When it doesn't sell, they try again. Some lower the price the second go around, and some don't. It's usually the newbies to EBAY that drive up the prices (and sometimes foreign buyers who don't have access to used equipment at thrift stores like folks do in the USA). The EBAY newbies actually believe the lies that many sellers propagate; namely, that a particular item is "RARE." That is not true in most cases, and I watch EBAY daily and have for years. No Mac 128k is "rare" when you see them on EBAY, in very good condition, almost every single day. Even a Mac 128k with original boxes is "not so rare" because I see those on EBAY several times a year. So think about it. Is that rare? In the seller's mind it is, and they want you to believe it so you pay more to them for that "rare" item. But have some patience, don't believe anything is "rare" unless you check it out first, and then you are set for getting some decent prices on EBAY.
Only this morning, I posted on 68kMLA about an excessively priced Mac 512k listing:
Now mfortuna spent $90 for a classic. That price for a Classic is high if you only get the Classic. I know this because I've seen very nice Classics sell for as low as $25. But he also got software and a printer too, so I feel the $90 price is right. He then bought some other parts and his total came to about $200. I consider that price a good deal. But spending $1,000 on the same is NOT a good deal. Again, you need to have patience with EBAY and "shop around." Only then can you get a good price on something you want to buy. But never buy thinking an item will never appear on EBAY again. There are some things like that, such as the coveted grayscale adapter and video card for SE/30's. But most Classic Macs and parts are not rare in that they sell on EBAY all the time.
Ok, I didn't realize you got that much stuff. Shipping must have been brutal unless it was a local pickup....
One thing about eBay is that there are a lot of shill bidders and non paying bidders so sometimes these grossly inflated prices are bogus. Like the auction for the General Lee last year.
Btw I was going to answer your query but looked like you had answered it already. I only got back on here two days ago after a year and a bit.
I have the sw disks for your Asante EN/SC device though up till a short time ago you could find the drivers on Asante's web site which is quite amazing considering how long ago it was. I have also used the square 50 pin version of the EN/SC on a PowerBook 100 in the past so a 68000 based mac can do it. If I can figure out where it is packed away I might be able to tell you how I configured it to work on the internet granted I'm pretty sure I was running OS 7.1 or maybe 7.5.5 but don't quote me on that.
Guess I'm a bit luckier in that I'm the resident Mac junk collector where I work so any time we are end of lifeing gear I get first crack at it. Drives the wife crazy as our basement looks like a salvage yard but just couldn't bear to see some of these old Macs go to the dump.
And that is perhaps why I look at the prices being paid and shake my head. Granted kudos to the sellers that are getting these prices as they must be doing a heck of a selling job.
I do have a list of Macs I would like in my collection and have already crossed off quite a few. Since I keep boxes and packaging for my purchases much to the dismay of my wife (again) I have a lot of Macs that are complete such as a Classic, Classic II, PB 100, CC, LC, IIsi, 165c, IIvx, G4... you get the picture but in terms of saying they are unopened... nope.... makes me think of the Leica collectors who wouldn't unwrap their new cameras for fear of causing the value to drop. Sheez.
Did come to the conclusion a few years ago that buying new wasn't worth it unless I had work that would pay it off. Plus we have G5 dp's at work so if I really need the speed I can use the macs there.
Anyhow I just picked up an iMac G4/700/15" for $79 cdn.... think it's going to need a power supply though.
Sorry that your thread has been totally hijacked.....