G3 AIO upgrade questions

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G3 AIO upgrade questions

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

About a month or two ago i purchased a G3 AIO from a thrift store for a savvy price of $25. Not bad. Now I've done some research and it's to my knowledge I can make certain upgrades. Please correct me if I am wrong

Processor: according to xlr8.com I can upgrade my 233mhz G3 to a G4 600 mhz for roughly $200. http://4daystar.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2 Which installation option do I choose?

Is it better to get the G3 500 mhz (is there a big difference between the G4 600 mhz and the G3 500 mhz?)
http://4daystar.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=57

memory: according to Mac’s site I can upgrade to only 386, but I have heard as much as 768. Is this possible? I am trying to turn this into a low end editing system, so the more the ram, the better. As for ram type, it's 168 pin, can it support pc133, or does the system only support pc100 and pc66? Is there a certain brand that needs to be used or is it like PCs, just get some good ram with good cas latency?

Video ram: Does that need to be upgraded if I want to do editing?

Video card: I heard with Macs you need an AGP graphics card to do any sort of video editing. Is this true? If it is, can I get a lower-end rage card and install into my AIO? if so what do you recommend? If I get another video card can I hook-up another monitor to the AIO?

Hard drive: if i wanted to use something faster than what is installed (which is a 66-ata or whatever). Are there IDE or ATA cards that people recommend that will work with the G3 AIO (so I may use a faster speed drive). I know there are some made by sonnet and other made by unknown companies. Has anyone tried the sonnet/unknown and had luck?

If i made all these upgrades (video card, ram, hard drive, video ram, processor) and then got a firewire/usb card, can I edit video (minidv)on this system? (lower version of final cut pro) I just want a lower end editing system, nothing fancy, but something that runs well if i choose to edit on this system. I have a machine I built myself inwhich I edit on some great programs, but if I am going to invest some cash into this Mac, it'd be a plus if I could edit video.

I apologize for all the questions, I've tried many message boards and many people we not helpful. I read this post http://www.applefritter.com/node/view/2453 and it gave me hope in upgrading my great find.

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ps

I've seen zif processors that claim that they can be used on a G3 aio. They are around 800-1ghz speed. Is it really possible to cram that into my system? I want to do video editing so tell me if this is feasable.

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G3 AIO

To answer the second-last question, yes, with all those upgrades it would make an excellent editing system. The G4 would be phenomenally better suited for the task, by the way. AFAIK you can install something like a Rage 128 or maybe Radeon PCI video card into that, which would make it an even more responsive system for some light work in that area.

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Short answer: yes

CPU: For video work get the G4. This will also make OS X Finder and desktop operations run a bit faster.

RAM: 768. Any 256 meg sticks must be double sided ie 16 chips to a stick and not 8, or they will only be read as 128s. You can use PC-66, 100 or 133. Go for CAS-2/CL-2.

And the rightmost slot looking from the front (ie closest to the power supply) will only take low-profile sticks. At least that's the case in the Desktop model - I don't know about the AIO.

And once you get above 512MB, you'll notice significant speedups in OS X. That'd be the first upgrade I would do, even before the CPU.

Video RAM: Couldn't hurt, and it's cheap. Max is 6 meg

Video Card: No AGP in those machine, PCI only. You should probably try out the results with just the onboard video at 6 meg before cashing out for a card. Also note that it must be a Mac version of the card, not PC, unless you want to try ROM flashing, which is tricky and doesn't always work.

The best (used) PCI card for the buck seems to be the Mac Radeon or Radeon 7000, although there is a new and expensive ATI Mac PCI card available with 128MB of VRAM. It's doubtful whether it's worth the $ - people aren't seeing great results.

You can also pick up pretty cheap used ATI Rage 128s from Blue and White G3s with an add-on DVD hardware decoder. (note 128 in this case is only a model number, not VRAM)

Hard Drive: Seagate Barracudas rule. Fast, cheap, quiet and reliable. The internal ATA bus is a bit slow, so you might want to think about a fast PCI ATA card. Again, try without first.

And to your final question: yeah, you should have a kickin' DVE box with all that.

Check out http://eshop.macsales.com - click the "Accelerators" tab.

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wow thanks for all the help.

wow thanks for all the help. what would you guys say is the most efficent (not too fast but not too slow) processor I should go for if i am going for the G4?

Will this 800 mhz processor work?
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=15-104-720R&depa=8

it doesn't have a heatsink but i don't think the AIO can fit a heatsink. I can always put in a PCI fan to cool the system down

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No problem

Folks around here have helped me plenty.

There's a heatsink on the existing CPU - you put it back over the new one, making sure the clip goes back on the right way round - it's not symmetrical if you look closely. The bend is closer to one end than the other, and it sits right over the centre of the CPU that way.

Have a good look around http://www.xlr8yourmac.com - there are good reviews and comparisons of CPU upgrades there.

And well, the listing for that CPU at newegg does specifically say G3 all-in-one. $190? Nice find! And a Radeon 7000 for $39?? W00t!

Heat shouldn't be a problem. G3/4s run a lot cooler than Pentiums, and Mac cases are really well designed for airflow. If you're concerned, download "Temperature Monitor Lite" and take before and after readings.

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AIO to an Editing Machine

It looks like you might be heading into the Upgrade Black Hole. I have fell victim to the same with my B&W G3. I sold it, and bought a better more capable system.

If you add up all the upgrades, I would venture to guess you are getting pretty close to a used G4 1GHz eMac - Which is not upgradeable, but far out paces the machine you are trying to build, without all the hassle! This Machine is listed at $529 at the Apple Store. It has 128 MB of memory, but memory is cheap, and it goes to 1GB...

Plus it has a larger screen (17") and a better built in video card, and USB/Firewire support, faster system bus, and IDE controller...

To use a Video card in the AIO means either hacking the video to work on the screen, or using an additional monitor... This kind of erases the benefits of the AIO form factor.

Seriously think about the costs and the future of the investments in an AIO, the eMac will enjoy support for a time, while you are on your own with the AIO.

I have been there, and saw the future and the Dollar signs adding up.

Cheers!

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Oops

Oops, yeah I forgot about the internal screen factor. You can hack a video card to the internal monitor, but it involves playing with wires and solder and sounds like a real pain.

The comments about prices of upgrades vs a used eMac are fair, but if you can only afford a bit at a time and not all in one hit, you could try everything *but* the video card, and that as well if you can find the hack info and have the skills to do it.

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Speaking of that, does anyone

Speaking of that, does anyone have the link to the site that shows you how to connect a PCI video card to the internal monitor? I've been searching and I can't find it.

Thanks!

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Re: Speaking of that, does anyone

Speaking of that, does anyone have the link to the site that shows you how to connect a PCI video card to the internal monitor? I've been searching and I can't find it.

Thanks!

finally found the link

http://www.shanecurd.com/projects/aioproject.htm

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anyone got the info still

I am attempting a more serious mod, and that address is no longer valid

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Second the Emac other Mac Vote

Hello:

I second the notion of looking for a different computer instead of upgrading the existing one.

Low End Macs webpages are a great source of information, and they have a best prices of various models found updated weekly, too. I have learned a whole lot about the G-4 towers (Yikes, Sawtooth, Digital Audio, etc.] and possible upgrades, downfalls, of these and other models, etc.

If you do opt to use ebay to look for used computers ... READ THE DETAILS QUITE CLOSELY ... That can not be overemphasized!

Be Careful, Read ALL the details, and do not forget the shipping and other costs.
If the memory, hard drive, Operating System disks, and other expensive parts are not included, then either pass them by or make sure that you factor that into you bid price and total cost for the system. [Frequently the keyboard and mouse are not included, so if you do not already have those ... $$$]

With that warning/precaution duly noted, there are some needle in the haystack deals to be had for around $200 (excluding monitor, keyboard and mouse.) The G-4 Towers/Desktops offer a lot of room to add additional internal dirves, and a couple PCI based cards where the Emac does not have the room for expansion. However the EMac from Apple will have a warranty, and many other advantages.

Then there was a still more impressive needle I found: Sawtooth model G4 450 Mhz. tower with a 60 Gig Hard drive, 1 GIG of RAM, and an address for the seller within about 40 miles of my home in rural Oklahoma.
Winning Bid Price: $86.00 + a pleasant drive into the country/round trip to the seller's place. [I can pick it up, instead of picking up the pieces as delivered by the shippers due to poor packing, etc.]

True it isn't the most upgradeable, fastest, etc. But in the spirit of the information noted on the Low End Macs pages, I asked myself: How much Mac do I really need? This should be quite good for what I need, and I could possible justify upgrading it with:
a higher wattage, slightly modified (cut a wire) standard ATX Power supply;
dual 500 mhz processors, or other motherboard + dual processors
more internal hard drives;
and other toys if I wanted to.

However, I may find a great deal on a still better G4 tower later ... and this one will meet my needs well for a long time as is if I do not (:-)

Hope this helps ... even if I did wear out a PC keyboard typing it.

David

PS> I do not recall the precise web address for Low End Macs, but you should be able to find it easily using "low end mac" in GOOGLE or YAHOO or other search engine.

As noted in a later post by Dr. Bunsen, the correct address is: http://www.lowendmac.com.

... Thank you Dr.!!
» Damn the Torx screws, full speed ahead!

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found the G3 AIO PCI video on internal CRT mod

macintoshme,
I tinkered around with the website and managed to get the instructions for putting the internal CRT on a PCI video card. It was a little hinkey to get the site to spit it out, so I just made a pdf. If you'd like the pdf, just PM me. Or try this link:

http://www.shanecurd.com/wordpress/?page_id=10

Maybe it'll work the first time for you.

mike

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At this stage of the market,

At this stage of the market, I'd agree that a used AGP G4 is a better bargain. I can get 466s shipped for $150 AU fixed price. (About $120 US) Faster bus (133MHz vs 66 in the beige), faster IDE, cheaper/faster CPU upgrades, Firewire and USB on board, 4 (faster) PCI slots and one AGP 4x.

Having used a PCI Rage 128+ for a while now, I can definitely say they are worth the $12 I paid Smile

That said, I wonder how the OP's going with his AIO?

ps http://www.lowendmac.com

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Re: found the G3 AIO PCI video on internal CRT mod

http://www.shanecurd.com/wordpress/?page_id=10

Oh wow. I can't believe he says to do the wiring hack while the other end of the cable is plugged into the brand new $90 video card. That's just ... dumb. You want to triple check your wiring before doing that.

There's another hack around that patches on to the PERCH card connector rather than the cable. Or is that the TV hack?

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yea that would be the tv hack

yea that would be the tv hack for the Personality cards in the Beige G3 also seen here
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/g3tv-1.html

the one he linked to is to run the internal monitor from a PCI video card instead of running from the onboard video.

and if you ever see a URL not work cause its not there anymore copy the url and paste it in the wayback machine located here

http://www.archive.org/index.php

but yea i also have a AIO and have tiger 10.4.8 installed on and running great useing xpostfacto.

the Beige G3 is capable of having 16mbps transfer rate on the onboard IDE bus.

i have a Western Digital SE 120gb HDD installed and it runs great.

my AIO came with the optional Wings Personality card (AKA A/V card) some came with the whisper Personality card (AKA non A/V card)

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Thanks, that is exactly what I needed

I am going to either create an AIO with a B&W board or, more likely, hook up the powersupply manually to a scsi array, and use it as a monitor with speakers. I will probably be back to work on a schematic for getting the sound out on the front to cancel out the speakers, but that is later. I am going to drop the fastest SCSI CD or DVD drive in the front that I can, I will probably even drop a Zip in it. I will then be hooking it into my Sawtooth. I hope the display can push more than 1024x768. I might have to do a Takky mod on it like a Color Classic.

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Paint it gloss black! Paint

Paint it gloss black! Paint it!!

getting the sound out on the front to cancel out the speakers

Just use a switched socket, and wire the speakers on the normally closed connector. When you plug in headphones, the switch cuts the NC line and passes it to the headphones.

Good luck fitting a larger mobo in there!

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lol it tried putting a Yikes

lol it tried putting a Yikes G4 mobo in my AIO and it was a bit to big. the B&W mobo is the same size as the yikes mobo. from side to side it would fit but from front to back was about a inch bigger then the Beige G3's mobo and would not fit unless i wanted to cut the case

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