Datanetics Keyboard Build guide and some additional information

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Datanetics Keyboard Build guide and some additional information

So I decided to update my Datanetics build guide.

One thing I noticed was that what my original cable instructions which were based upon Mike Willegal's reverse engineered Rev 'b' schematic didn't match the reset and clear screen key layout on the last 3 original Apple-1 ByteShop cases with Datanetics keyboards that I have worked on.

It should also be noted, that for the Rev D keyboard which is what the byteshop used, pin 4 on the bottom of the edge connector is no longer the +5v power, but is used for a shift lock key and indicator light. The +5V power is on pin 5 of the bottom of the edge connector. I made this mistake before when working on a keyboard and thought I had a bad encoder. I had checked the pins between the Rev B and Rev D cables, but gave up after all the top connector pins matched. My Bad.

Anyway... Here is the latest doc.

Datanetics Build Guide

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About C1 capacitor

Hello and thank you for your guide.

My question is, why you don't put the C1 capacitor as the schematic information, but connect the one pin of C1 to pin 3 of 555 timer.  

Thank you

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One suggestion...  You might

One suggestion...  You might include a link to Joe's Computer Museum.  They make a modern replacement for the encoder chip.  Yes, it isn't period correct, but it is fairly reasonably priced and readily available.

 

 

https://jcm-1.com/product/mm5740aae-replacement-keyboard-encoder/

 

I've not been able to get PCBs made from either JLCPCB or PCBWay using the gerbers from Mike's web site.  Neither of them can figure out the size of the board, which I believe should be 299x140mm.  Even when I key that in, it seems like they are confused about what the layers should be and they complain about not having solder mask (which there is none on this board).  PCBWay also wants a crazy price for what gets uploaded, like over $150 for 5 boards.

 

I ended up ordering a board off eBay from someone in Hong Kong that I've bought from before.  It was a little expensive to ship, but at least it looks like it should be correct.

 

FWIW, I am going to use Cherry MX switches and keycaps with the 3D printed adapters discussed in a different thread about Apple II Datanetics keyboards.  It looks like that adapter should work fine on this PCB also.

 

 

 

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 softwarejanitor wrote:I've

 

softwarejanitor wrote:

I've not been able to get PCBs made from either JLCPCB or PCBWay using the gerbers from Mike's web site.  Neither of them can figure out the size of the board, which I believe should be 299x140mm.  Even when I key that in, it seems like they are confused about what the layers should be and they complain about not having solder mask (which there is none on this board).  PCBWay also wants a crazy price for what gets uploaded, like over $150 for 5 boards.

 

I went through this issue with the Brain Board PCB when I revised it, with the exception that it has a solder mask layer. It was fixable though, if you link me the gerber you're speaking of I can have a look. 

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skate323k137 wrote:
skate323k137 wrote:

 

softwarejanitor wrote:

I've not been able to get PCBs made from either JLCPCB or PCBWay using the gerbers from Mike's web site.  Neither of them can figure out the size of the board, which I believe should be 299x140mm.  Even when I key that in, it seems like they are confused about what the layers should be and they complain about not having s

 

 

The link to the zip of the gerbers is here:  http://www.willegal.net/appleii/dc-6e.zip

 

 

I actually had no trouble getting the orignal BrainBoard PCBs made.  I don't remember now which place I used but I uploaded the zip and it worked.

 

On the Datanetics PCB I even tried renaming the files thinking maybe the filename conventions were messing things up.  It didn't seem to matter much.  The gerbers look fine when viewed in gerbv under Linux.

 

 

 

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softwarejanitor wrote
softwarejanitor wrote:
skate323k137 wrote:

 

softwarejanitor wrote:

I've not been able to get PCBs made from either JLCPCB or PCBWay using the gerbers from Mike's web site.  Neither of them can figure out the size of the board, which I believe should be 299x140mm.  Even when I key that in, it seems like they are confused about what the layer

 

Give this a look, I re-saved it from a modern version of Osmond and set file extensions for PCBWAY.  

 

https://photosuckit.com/GerberFiles_dc-revb-v6e-new.zip

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Thanks, I will try uploading

Thanks, I will try uploading it later and see whether it works.

 

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Hi skate323k137!

Thank you! Can you also do the same with the ASCII to PS/2 Keyboard Adapter? I use a different adapter but would like to build the Mike Willegal adapter in time.

 

http://www.willegal.net/appleii/HWfiles.zip

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 Macintosh_nik wrote:Thank

 

Macintosh_nik wrote:

Thank you! Can you also do the same with the ASCII to PS/2 Keyboard Adapter? I use a different adapter but would like to build the Mike Willegal adapter in time.

 

http://www.willegal.net/appleii/HWfiles.zip

Sure mate, here you go:

 

https://photosuckit.com/Update_GerberFiles_WillegalKeyAdapter.zip

 

I took a quick look on PCBWAY and it looks OK at first glance. If I royally screwed up please let me know :) 

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Hi skate323k137!

Thank you all is well!

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skate323k137 wrote: Macintosh
 

 

I ended up making a few tweaks to the datanetics pcb gerbers and uploading to JLCPCB.  I should have boards in about a week.

 

PCBWay was about 3x the price...

 

I wish I had some kind of gerber editor.  I may end up writing one because there seems to be a void in tools there for people who don't want to spend a fortune.

 

 

 

 

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softwarejanitor wrote:  I
softwarejanitor wrote:
 

 

I ended up making a few tweaks to the datanetics pcb gerbers and uploading to JLCPCB.  I should have boards in about a week.

 

PCBWay was about 3x the price...

 

I wish I had some kind of gerber editor.  I may end up writing one because there seems to be a void in tools there for people who don't want to spe

So did that end up helping / did you start from the updated files I posted? 

 

I always quote PCBs at both JLC and PCBway. I actually find JLCS HASL to be smoother but thats a minor issue as most production cards with edges I will use ENIG. But then also, PCBway has the option bevel edge connectors, so I try to use them for slotted cards. 

 

Editing a gerber itself is interesting... I have been learning KiCad, Fritzing, and Osmond, the latter two because other projects had their source files. If you have the original work piece pre export, making changes is easier since components and signals are identified etc. 

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skate323k137 wrote
skate323k137 wrote:
softwarejanitor wrote:
 

 

I ended up making a few tweaks to the datanetics pcb gerbers and uploading to JLCPCB.  I should have boards in about a week.

 

PCBWay was about 3x the price...

 

I wish I had some kind of gerber editor.  I may end up writing one because there seems to be a v

 

Yes, it was very helpful.  The only thing I did was delete the solder mask layer because I want the PCBs to look more like the original Datanetics ones that didn't have any.  And that caused some consternation with JLCPCB.  I have gone back and forth with them on how to proceed but I think they are going to make the boards the way I want them.  Anyway, they will either work or I'll learn something, one way or the other.

 

 

 

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Damn DHL...  last time I pay

Damn DHL...  last time I pay a premium for their delivery.  They've really let me down this time.  "Delivery attempt could not be completed : Monday, February 06, 2023 at 8:33 PM"  now...  "Estimated delivery 09 Feb 2023 by End of Day"

 

#!@$%&!?!

 

Three extra days?  I could have picked one of the cheaper shipping options and gotten it at the same time and saved $10-$20.

 

Really disappointed.  DHL has lost my business. Next time I pick one of the cheaper shipping options.

 

Probably cost them more in long term business than if they'd made this right.  Especially if others also decide to choose the other shippers based on this.

 

Anyway, I got my 3D prined Cherry MX to Datanetics adapters...  And I should have my black Cherry MX key switches and key caps soon...  I already got my keyboard encoder chip from Joe's Computer Museum...  So hopefully soon I will be able to assemble a Datanetics style keyboard from scratch.

 

 

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That is rough. I hope it

That is rough. I hope it magically shows up tomorrow. 

 

I have sprung for dhl in a hurry before, sometimes if it gets to my local hub in the middle of the day it gets marked as "on hold," or another odd status. Then it shows up the next day.

 

The only other thing I can think is delays from the lunar new year / holiday in China. Either way, fingers crossed. 

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I've always got stuff on time

I've always got stuff on time from DHL in the past.  I wouldn't be pissed except I paid 3x the price of the cheaper shipping options to get the same service time.  The order was placed after the Chinese new year, so I am not cutting them a break for that.  And the delivery window in the US was enough after the icepocalypse here that I'm not cutting them a break for that either.  It's just a messup on their part as far as it appears.  I won't be quite as irritated if it shows up tomorrow, but if it's 3 days late I will feel ripped off on the shipping because that it will be nearly twice the time that I paid for.

 

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My Datanetics PCBs finally

My Datanetics PCBs finally came in...  They look perfect...

 

 

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Dude! Nice! I'm glad it

Dude! Nice! I'm glad it worked out :D 

 

I'd ask for one for a wall hanger but I wouldn't want to keep one from being built if you have plans for them all. 

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With the 3D printed Cherry MX

With the 3D printed Cherry MX adapters...

 

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skate323k137 wrote:Dude! Nice
skate323k137 wrote:

Dude! Nice! I'm glad it worked out :D 

 

I'd ask for one for a wall hanger but I wouldn't want to keep one from being built if you have plans for them all. 

 

I'm tempted to build them all, except the 3D printed adapters, Cherry MX key switchses, key caps and the Joe's Computer Museum encoder are all pretty expensive.  I'm not sure I woulnd't lose money on the deal if I made them and tried to sell them.  Now I see why Newton Mike gets as much for his Datanetics style keyboards as he does.

 

I was thinking of building one and putting the other 4 up on eBay.  There is someone in Hong Kong selling boards that look exacly like the ones I got from JLCPCB except for they don't have the tiny Willegal logo on the back side.  I bought one of the Hong Kong boards, and side by side they are nearly indistinguishable to the point I'm pretty sure that he started from Mike's Gerbers.  I figure I could probably ask about the same price as he is, but since postage from me to someone in the US would be cheaper I should be able to move my boards.

 

 

 

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Oh...  one more suggestion

Oh...  one more suggestion for the build guide...  It would be nice to have a picture of the PCB and mark the holes in the matrix area that need to be drilled through in red or something.  It might not be clear to everyone from the schematic which holes need to be drilled and which ones don't.

 

 

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Anyone tried getting any

Anyone tried getting any parts 3D printed lately?  I ordered enough of the Cherry MX to Databetics key switch adapters to do one keyboard from a place online...  they were expensive but tolerable.  I just tried to place another order and now the exact same thing they want over twice as much, almost 3 times.  I tried entering the same thing several times.  I changed the materials, finish, colors...  everything just made it even more expensive.  So I went and got quites from 4 other places...  similar crazy high prices.  Has something happened in the past few weeks to cause this?  Or is it just me?  I can understand if one company is tracking me and jacking the price up, but a couple other totally unrelated places you wouldn't think would be doing that.

 

Anyway, a the 2x+ price it isn't worth it and they have lost my business.  Maybe I will wait a few weeks and try again.

 

 

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softwarejanitor wrote:Anyone
softwarejanitor wrote:

Anyone tried getting any parts 3D printed lately?  I ordered enough of the Cherry MX to Databetics key switch adapters to do one keyboard from a place online...  they were expensive but tolerable.  I just tried to place another order and now the exact same thing they want over twice as much, almost 3 times.  I tried entering the same thing several times.  I changed the

I was finally able to come up with a combination of parameters of materials and colors, etc. that was bearable in price so I have more adapters coming.

 

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My question is about the

My question is about the drilling of the matrix holes...  My assumption is the holes inside the red box are the ones that need to be drilled.  If this isn't correct hopefully someone will correct me.    Having a picture like this in the build guide might be helpful...

 

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Partially assembled keybaord 

Partially assembled keybaord

 

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softwarejanitor wrote:My
softwarejanitor wrote:

My question is about the drilling of the matrix holes...  My assumption is the holes inside the red box are the ones that need to be drilled.  If this isn't correct hopefully someone will correct me.    Having a picture like this in the build guide might be helpful...

 

[[{"fid":"36229","view_mode":"default","fields":{"format":"default","alignment":"","field

 

yes those holes need the via's drilled out.  

 

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Corey986 wrote
Corey986 wrote:
softwarejanitor wrote:

My question is about the drilling of the matrix holes...  My assumption is the holes inside the red box are the ones that need to be drilled.  If this isn't correct hopefully someone will correct me.    Having a picture like this in the build guide might be helpful...

 

 

Awesome...  that's what I wanted to verify.  I was pretty sure, but it is not 100% clear from the build guide.  A pic would make it obvious.

 

 

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This is awesome - also commencing a replica build.
I've managed to find an original shift lock key and indicator light from another keyboard, which the latest revision solves for! Very cool. It looks like it sat at the left of the space bar on the Apple-1's you've been examining Corey? I can see the extra 5v power traces running to that position on the Science Museum of London artifact.Ordered some extra boards if anyone needs one. Will post progress pics here!
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Finished Datanetics Rev B build!

That latest PDF is great! Used a late 70's Datanetics for the grey key caps, brackets and stiffener, and a peculiar  "/@"  key, which i'm using for Reset.  :) I wonder if there are other builds that use this key, since it's so literal. May put the extra Willegal PCBs up on eBay.

 

 

 

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