Obscure Stumper: Can't Install OS X Server 1.2 on Powerbook 2400c

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Obscure Stumper: Can't Install OS X Server 1.2 on Powerbook 2400c

Hi Folks,

If anyone has any experienc with Rhapsody/OS X Server 1.x, here's a question:

I can't install it on a 2400c. When the PB tries to boot from the OS X Server CD to begin installation, the screen stays black (backlight off), and it dumps into Open Firmware, saying "bootr, unknown word." In addition, the OS X Server System Disk Control Panel and System Disk Startup Extension don't work on the 2400c.

The bottom line is, Web reports say this OS will work on a 2400, but I cannot get the 2400 to boot from the OS X Server install CD. The CD itself is good -- the 2400 will recognize it, and will boot from the Mac OS 9.0 partition of the install CD. And I used the CD to successfully install OS X Server on a 7300.

I'm guessing the answer here lies in getting the 2400 to boot from the OS X Server CD's UFS partition by manually entering an Open Firmware prompt that includes the device address of that partition. But I don't know OF well enough to do that.

Failing that, does anyone know a way to copy my existing OS X Server installation from my 7300 to the internal HD of the 2400? Apparently OS X Server 1.x installations are machine-independent.

TIA,
Matt

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SCSI disk mode....

SCSI disk mode should work for copying that... if you can find the 30 pin cable you need for that.

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Software, not hardware

Thanks for the tip, Kurami. But I think the problem isn't hardware, it's software. Even if I were to mount the 2400's HD on the 7300's desktop, I couldn't simply copy the OS X installation over to the 2400's HD --as with more current versions of OS X, you can't just drag and drop as with Classic Mac OS. You need some kind of clonging utility, and from what I can see nothing for OS X along those lines will work on OS X Server 1.x.

I supposed I could image the 7300's HD bit-for-bit using Toast or something (or even OS X Disk Copy), but I think I would need to be booted into OS X on the 2400 to be able to then copy that image to the HD.

Matt

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Carbon Copy Cloner

Check out the link on this thread...

http://www.applefritter.com/node/view/4048#comment-6277

HTH
--DDTM

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Compatibility?

Thanks Doug. That was my first thought. But I've looked through the site and I don't think there's a version of CCC there that will work on OS X Server 1.x. I believe the minimum is OS X 10.1.x, which is a very different beast.

I will double-check though (although bombich's site isn't responding just now).

Matt

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xpostfacto?

I'm sure I'm stating the obvious, but had to as I saw no previous mention.

dan k

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True

Xpostfacto can indeed be used to install OS X on a 2400. But with no G3 upgrade, a 1.3GB HD and only 48MB RAM, not to mention XPF's only partial support for the 2400, there'd hardly be a point in trying it on my particular 2400. And according to its documentation, XPF only works as far back as 10.0. Server 1.2 is really a different beast -- it's pretty much pure OpenStep running on PPC CPUs, and with a good bit of classic Mac OS GUI thrown in.

By running OS X Server 1.2 on my 2400, I can get the protected memory, and overall stability in an OS much less taxing and memory/HD-hungry than modern OS X. There's also the 'frittery goodness of running such an oddball OS.

FYI I tried booting the 2400 from the HD of my Server 1.2-running 7300, by putting the 7300's HD in an external SCSI case. But still no dice.

Oh well, I'll put this problem aside for now. Maybe a solution will turn up eventually.

Matt

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try the XPostFacto forums for solutions

I'm not at all familiar with Server 1.2 on unsupported HW, but I bet there are folks who are. And the best place to find 'em is probably at the XPostFacto forums. But I'm guessing you already gave that a try? Might even consider mailing Ryan Rempel directly, if anyone knows it'd be him.

dan k

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If memory recalls, the PowerB

If memory recalls, the PowerBook 2400 is a NuBus based machine, not PCI. Mac OS X Server 1.2 requires a PCI Architecture and there is no way of hacking it otherwise. Apple only ever officially supported it's use on Beige G3's and up to the first few G4 Towers. You can override the installation options but Apple only allowed this for the server OS to be demonstrated using PowerBooks with PCI buses.

Long story short, your machine is not supported, never will be. Linux is your only hope for protected memory and other such robust features.

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Nope, it's PCI

The Duo 2300c is a NuBus PPC Powerbook. But the PB2400c is PCI-based. Internally it's virtually identical to a 3400c.

And it was included as a usable (if not officially supported) machine for OS X Server 1.x:

http://www.stepwise.com/MacOSXServer/HardwareSupport/index.html

In addition, apparently one of the programmers working on the OS used a 3400c, and so made sure it (and therefore the 2400c) would work, even if it wasn't officially supported.

Matt

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Thanks

for the suggestion Dan. I have emailed Ryan, so we'll see if anything turns up.

I'm not optimistic though - XPF's documentation says it goes back only to 10.0, and the XPF forums don't have a single mention anywhere of Server 1.x.

Matt

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Boy, i havent used OSX server

Boy, i havent used OSX server 1.x in ages. Although when it first came out I had installed it on quite a few PCI based macs, including some Power Computings. As for for the 2400, I am not super familiar with them. If it is a new world machine, then you shoud be able to hold command-option on boot and bring up the boot manager. But I didnt think it was a new world. I used to have a list of OF commands around here, I will see if I can find them.

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Open Firmware but not New World

The 2400c uses Open Firmware but it's an Old World machine. The first New World machines were either the bondi iMacs or the beige G3s. I forget which.

So far my search for OF commands for OF version 2.0.1 has proved fruitless, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

At any rate, I'm sure there's a setenv command to say, boot from the !#$@%^ Mac OS X Server UFS partition, da*n you! But I don't know what it is.

What's also curious is that the Startup Disk Utility won't work here. No online reports of OS X Server 1.x installation on the 3400/2400 mention that.

Matt

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More info...

Well, I'm now wondering if it's a problem with my particular machine.

As stated before, System Disk won't work with this computer. I can select the proper Mac OS X Server partition as a boot partition, but I can't save/write that setting to NVRAM as one is supposed to do.

I found a posting on a NetBSD/Mac PPC list that mentioned something about using an older utility called BootVars on machines that wouldn't work with System Disk.

I got BootVars, and when I launch it, it says my NVRAM appears to be corrupted. I continue launching BootVars, and I change a setting, but it too won't write the setting to NVRAM.

So either BootVars is assuming a true New World machine (Bondi iMac or later), and the 2400 doesn't work with System Disk (even though apparently the 3400 does) -- OR, perhaps my motherboard clock battery is low but not dead. I've found with at least one other Mac that a weak PRAM battery can corrupt PRAM and prevent it from being written to -- in this case it was a 4.5V battery that was down to 2.2V.

Of course, the 2400 is such a PIA to take apart that I'm loathe to get in there, given that the machine seems to be working perfectly in regular Mac OS, and that I don't have any RAM, HD or other upgrade to justify opening it up.

The only other step I can think of is to get ahold of a SCSI-disk-mode cable, start it up in SCSI disk mode connected to my 7300, install OS X Server onto the 2400's HD, and then hope that the 2400 will boot from that installation.

Matt

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The iMac was the very first n

The iMac was the very first new world, but I didnt keep up on powerbooks at that time. So not sure what time period they came out in. I suppose I could get un-lazy and go look Wink

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Built-in USB = ROM-in-RAM (or NewWorld) architecture

easy-peasy way to remember!

original iMac and iBook, Lombard, and B+W. And everything later of course.

dan k

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Ok, I didn't know thw 2400 wa

Ok, I didn't know thw 2400 was PCI.

There could be slight differences in architecture between the two models of 2400 and 3400, like a new implementation of OF, but a low battery could cause it. If you install to the HD using disk mode, you will still have the problem of getting it too boot, as your machine will still be set to boot in classic mode, and I can't recall if the Server 1.2 has a boot block that automatically restarts the machine in the correct mode the way OS X does.

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