Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

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Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

I have an Apple II that will only boot into monitor mode. I suspect maybe the ROMs are bad. The autostart ROM had a broken pin, which I've temporarily fixed by jamming a wire in with the chip (before that, the computer wouldn't boot at all, no beeps)

Now the computer boots with two beeps, and this output: D3E5- A=01 X=00 Y=08 P=34 S=F4

...followed by the * prompt.

I'm pretty new to the Apple II, but these are my observations so far:

-I learned that the address for BASIC is E000. If I type E000G into the monitor it responds with that same hex output above. If I type E000G on my Apple IIc, it starts the BASIC prompt.
-The computer otherwise works: I suspect that if there was any damage to the board, or if any other chips weren't working, I wouldn't even get so far as the monitor prompt.

I suppose if I had a question to ask, it would be "is that definitely the problem?" As in: if I purchase replacement ROMs off eBay that are presumably in working order, and I put them in my Apple II, would this fix my problem? I'd hate to buy replacement ROMs and find that I still have problems...

Thanks!

UPDATE
A few weeks back I opened up an Apple II emulator and, for the heck of it, started listing the contents of the ROMS (F800L, F000L, etc.) and comparing with the contents of my Apple II. Everything initially seemed to match, until I listed D000. The memory at that location did not match the emulator's. I figured that was likely problematic Blum 3

I recently got an Apple II Plus, and noticed the same ROM chips in it. I pulled out D0 (341-0011) and put it in the Apple II and wouldn't you know..... it worked! So the problem was definitely that ROM chip.

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC

I would guess there is another Pin on the ROM that is not making Connection......

"speedyG" should be awake in a few hours, I would guess he would have a good idea of what to try next....

MarkO

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC

jdmoser wrote:
I have an Apple II that will only boot into monitor mode. I suspect maybe the ROMs are bad. The autostart ROM had a broken pin, which I've temporarily fixed by jamming a wire in with the chip (before that, the computer wouldn't boot at all, no beeps)
Now the computer boots with two beeps, and this output: D3E5- A=01 X=00 Y=08 P=34 S=F4
...followed by the * prompt.
I'm pretty new to the Apple II, but these are my observations so far:
-I learned that the address for BASIC is E000. If I type E000G into the monitor it responds with that same hex output above. If I type E000G on my Apple IIc, it starts the BASIC prompt.
-The computer otherwise works: I suspect that if there was any damage to the board, or if any other chips weren't working, I wouldn't even get so far as the monitor prompt.
I suppose if I had a question to ask, it would be "is that definitely the problem?" As in: if I purchase replacement ROMs off eBay that are presumably in working order, and I put them in my Apple II, would this fix my problem? I'd hate to buy replacement ROMs and find that I still have problems...
Thanks!

Hello dmoser,
welcome in the community....
your explenations so far are great and detailed....
just few additional questions:
is the Disk II controller inserted and Disk II attached, when this attempts for booting have been performed ?
does the crash occure while booting from disk ( meaning that the disk starts spinning and the system starts reading
- and then crashes ?
is there a languagecard ( the 16 kB card ) inserted in the system and connected correct ?
explenation for this questions:
if the computer starts booting from disk, it might be a reading problem.
if languagecard is inserted it might be bad adressingline or bad RAMchip on languagecard.
if the crash occurs each time at same adresslocation, then it´s rather sure, that a adressingline or decodingchip
- one of the 74LS138 - is your problem.
I´d check once more carefully for a bent leg that slipped underneath the chip intead of slipping in the socket -
( checking also carefully the chips on the languagecard as well as the RAMchips on mainboard... )
if the questions above are answered here, we can continue search for the problem....
at the moment i´d wait with the order for the ROMs.....
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC

Thanks for the replies, speedyG and MarkO! Thanks for the welcome Smile

The Apple II came with two Disk II cards... I've taken them out during this time so that they aren't a factor. There's no other cards installed. The crash occurs immediately after powering on the computer, I get the two beeps, that output from address D3E5, and just a monitor prompt. It happens each time at that address.

There were a few occasions I booted up the computer with a few ROMs removed, and got one beep and just the words "Apple ][" on screen, but no prompt. But when I have all ROMs in place, I get that error at D3E5... so it's pretty consistent.

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC

Hello SpeedyG

I need some similar help here. I have an apple II that does not boot into basic.
However if I press ctrl + b I can go into basic. >

I have seen the screen get scrambled once or twice, but seems to be due to ROM card getting shifted around a little.
while working on other cards.

What would be the best diagnostics disk to use?

Can someone point me to a board layout with chip ids? I tend to like this method more then schematics, but can use
schematics as well.

I have a nice CP/M card as well, but again, the screen gets scrambled after a short time. So, I have all the cards out right now.

Can someone tell me how to upload images to this site?

Thank you
P.S. I used to be Speedy Gonzales in my youth. I had some good wheels (Legs) back then.

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC

Hello Novell2NT,
welcome to the community.....
unfortunatly i'm locked up with a task that has fixed deadline.....
The task will be of the table on thursday ....
then i will reply....

first related to images:
in the top right corner of the page there is a "search field" relatd to stuff
that has been handled in this site...
search there with the terms "display image in posting"...
you will get a bunch of links related to the topic...
it`s also explained at:
http://www.applefritter.com/?q=filter/tips

sincerely speedyG

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC

Hello MarkO

I am a newb here, so I do not know how to reach out to experienced users, to get there input on a matter.

I am working on an Apple II that is not booting into basic, but boots into the monitor first, then I can
go to basic by pressing ctrl + B

This thread shows as being solved, but I do not see what the resolution was for this user.
I did find a couple of ROMs that had some really dirty pins. (I was also having a problem, where the screen would wacko after a while)

I would still like this to go to basic first.

I would also really like to find a board layout with IC numbers on each chip.

Anyway, any help is always appreciated.

Thank you

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC

Novell2NT wrote:
Hello MarkO
I am working on an Apple II that is not booting into basic, but boots into the monitor first, then I can
go to basic by pressing ctrl + B

This thread shows as being solved, but I do not see what the resolution was for this user.

Hi Novell. This sounds like normal behaviour for an early Apple ][ without the autostart ROM. Personally I would keep it how it is, for authenticity, but each to their own. Maybe you could install an autostart ROM? You can learn more here, under the 'Firmware' section: http://apple2history.org/history/ah06/

The OP solved his problem by comparing the memory of his Apple ][ ROM with that of a ROM in an emulator (which was assumed to be correct). 'Something' caused his original Apple ][ ROM to have a discrepancy at memory location D000. Causes for this range from bad luck to bad luck.

jdmoser, if you ever get the chance, you should list your 'broken' ROM memory contents for someone to take a look at. D000 is the start of the Applesoft Interpreter or the Programmers Aid #1, depending on what language card you have installed.

Just did my own test using AppleWin. Under original Apple ][ emulation mode, D000 is A9. Under Apple ][+ and //e, it is 6F. Was either value present at D000 in your 'broken' ROM?

D000G on original Apple ][ in emulation starts hi res graphics mode (present on the Programmers Aid ROM), while on Apple ][+ and higher D000G breaks the system with a similar error message to above.

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

Hello Novell2NT,
to simplify discusion:
unless you can't handle the IMG-tags that are explained in the page i placed here a link,
there is a rather simple way to find out if your Apple is one of the first revisions or a later revision:
on the border of the mainboard there are in white silkscreen printing alphabetic letters at one side ( close
to power supply )and numbers at the front side beneath the keyboard.
According to that - you can locate areas on the mainboard in coordinates.

If your mainboard has at the 1st row between D to F row so called "memory blocks" with white labels
"16k /4k" then your mainboard is one of the early versions and probably has integer basic without
autostart Rom - if that locations are empty then its a laterversion with applesoft and with autostart Rom.
If it's early version then socket labeled as D8 Rom is empty.
In that case it's normal behaviour.

If it's later Mainboard version then it's probably a fault of Rom or decoding Rom-adress.
If you want the Apple to stop at Basic prompt, you should test without the diskcontroller inserted.
If the computer then stops at basic prompt and displays "Apple ][" on top of screen it's OK.
Otherwise there might be a problem with memory.

The layout you are hunting maybe this:
http://www.appleii-box.de/Bilder/Arbitrary.jpg

speedyG

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

Hello SpeedyG,

How did your project go? Hope it went well.

I have two apple II machines here to work with. They both have the 16K memory jumpers between D and F.
If you do not have these blocks, you probably have an apple II plus mother board.

The one has the 3410020 (auto start ROM) but the one I am working on has the 3410004 so it is
definitely integer basic. However it boots into the monitor. I can press ctrl + b and go into
integer basic. I was just wondering if that is normal, or should it go into basic first?

I have seen a recent picture on ebay of a very early 1977 that looks like it booted to the monitor
however it looked like a commodore boot screen, with a very uniformed screen of blocks and @'S

When I boot up a get a different bunch of characters like mostly all Z's with a few "(" every so often.
It seems to be different every time. then I get the * prompt at the bottom of the screen.

When I press ctrl + b I get the integer prompt > and can write and execute simple basic programs.

I wish this site had a better way of uploading pictures. Oh, and I do not seem to get a notification
when someone post to this thread?

I do not know if you are allowed or want to, send me your emial and I will send you pics of what I have.

Thank you

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

Hello Novell 2NT,
which project ? i have several projects running....

Yes the 314 0020 is definitly a autostart ROM,
and the 314 0004 is definitly not autostart....

seems you are misunderstanding some interpretations:
if you see stripes and "character-bars" then thats not booting to monitor ....
then the computer stuck definitly with RAM problem....

If you boot to monitor correct then the Apple stops with "*" as promt at
beginning of line waiting for input.

I never publish email in public ! Neither mine nor others !
check out pm's.

sincerely
speedyG

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

Hello SpeedyG,

Now I am a little more confused...

"if you see stripes and "character-bars" then that's not booting to monitor ...."
Even if there is a * prompt?
If you are seeing stripes and "character-bars", then what are you booting into?

In which case, is the computer stuck and definitely with RAM problems?
If it boots with stripes and bars or if it boots with different patterns each time with a monitor prompt? *

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

If you view the emailed pictures its explained
if you see left picture your system crashed to "Nirvana" without asterisk
no basic, no monitor just stuck system with RAM problem....
even if you get in such case sometimes an asterisk -
the system is stuck and you won't be able to switch to any kind of basic...

speedyG

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

Hey guys,

I am back, and I have a new Apple II, that I am working on, and could use some help.

This one powers on, and I get a screen full of ???? marks, but I do not hear a beep
and I do not get a prompt. So, I can not type anything. Reset key does not do anything
and CTRL+B does not get me anywhere either.

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

Novell2NT wrote:
Hey guys,

I am back, and I have a new Apple II, that I am working on, and could use some help.

This one powers on, and I get a screen full of ???? marks, but I do not hear a beep
and I do not get a prompt.


Sounds like the microprocessor is not coming out of its reset state to begin executing instructions. What have you done so far with this Apple? Have you tried pressing down and re-seating ICs?

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Re: Apple II won't boot into BASIC (SOLVED)

Standard Info page is at:
http://www.appleii-box.de/D04_resurection.htm

sincerely
Speedy

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Wont turn into Basic.

Hi Everyone,
I recently got an Apple II and looking for a solution I found this thread.
When I boot it up after the beep a screen full of question marks and the monitor * prompt at the botton (fully funtional).
When I try to press CTRL+B & RETURN nothing happens.
If I Press CTRL+C & RETURN the prompt turns in to >65535 but everything I type gets a syntax error as answer
The machine has 4 Synertek Early ROMS
F8 (C38012)
F0(C28079)
E8(C38010)
E0(C38009)
D8&D0 are empty...
I supose I don't have an autostart ROM so Is there a way to go into Integer basic?
Thanks.

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Re: Wont turn into Basic.

Hi Manzana2,
Based on your description, it seems your Apple II have trouble getting into Integer BASIC.
Can you try the RAM test in this thread and report back here ?

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