Apple IIe ALPS logstem Keyboard big headache.

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Apple IIe ALPS logstem Keyboard big headache.

Hello everyone,

my name is Michael and I made a dream come true ... 36 years later ....

 

At the age of 14 (in 1985) I wanted an Apple IIe so bad. Now 36 years I got one of eBay with ten non working ALPS log stem keys.

Nothing brocken, nothing damaged but non working.

 

I took out the 10 keys, rebent that little spingy thing and gave that brass plates a thorough wash with what we germans call "Tuner Spray 900" for delicate contacts.

It works, when I press the key it is a perfect zero ohms contact but when I release the switch it becomes a kind of capacitor and after exactly 19.7 seconds after being released that key starts to go in a kind of "rapidfire" that can only be stopped by pressing that key again and then .....

 

Can anybody tell me a link or show me pictures of a totally disassembled key that can give me a hint what kind of cleaning does not make those keys "capacitors" ?

All other hints and links to keyboard adaptors (PS/2) are also welcone.

 

The Appe ist a Apple IIe standard, ALPS long stem keys and a keyboard with noch electronics on it.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Michael

 

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The spring contact you bent

The spring contact you bent is too close together now and you're right - you've turned it into a sort of capacitor.

 

I've run into this sort of thing before and fixed it by taking hte key switch apart again and re-doing the key switch.

It self-repeats after you let go of it.

 

Also, make sure it's completely dry before reassembling it.

 

 

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Thank you very much for the

Thank you very much for the confirmation of my assumption with the capacitor behavior.

I thought that, I wrecked sonmething else.

 

Then I will go upstairs now and spend another evening wirh Apple Stuff ...

On tursday and friday a freind of mine and I soldered a Apple II Rev. 0 replica baord each and "got it to life" ...

 

Today will be the Apple IIe Keyboard day ....

Thanks again for your usefull information.

 

By the way: Sorry for my bad english and the terrible grammar and spelling of the words. D-Grade english student.

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Hey another one from Germany

Hey another one from Germany ;)

 

I don't know this Tuner Spray 900... I always recommend "Kontakt 60" from CRC... this comes near the most recommended DE-OXY from our american fellows. I resurrected a nearly complete stuck //c-Keyboard with it.

Maybe you should blow out the keys with compressed air (i.e. "DRUCKLUFT 67") before trying another helper spray.

 

Hope you get your //e back to life ;)

 

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I am allmost thru ...When I

I am allmost thru ...

When I was done with the 10 keys that, obviously didn't work I startet to play a little bit around and ..... DRUMS ! .... another bunch of keys failed.

All together I am at the count of 29 now.

 

I do not like Kontakt 60 from CRC very much for contacts that do not have the "the greens" on it.

This is because Kontakt 60 starts to eat away contactmaterial, softens some plastics ...

When I use Kontakt 60 I do a thorough flush with Kontakt WL afterwards to be on the safe side.

 

Another project got a much better outcome ....

The PCB's I ordered at PCBWay for the Apple II Rev. 0 replica and the keyboard interface for it from the willegal webside work perfect.

I only need to find a way to make it easier to get software loaded than by my Andorid Phone via the flaky cassette interface card.

 

Now I continue to solder the remaining keys back to the keyboard and hope that all of em are now working for a long time.

 

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OLD One wrote:I am allmost
OLD One wrote:

I am allmost thru ...

When I was done with the 10 keys that, obviously didn't work I startet to play a little bit around and ..... DRUMS ! .... another bunch of keys failed.

All together I am at the count of 29 now.

 

I do not like Kontakt 60 from CRC very much for contacts that do not have the "the greens" on it.

This is because Kontakt 60 starts to eat away

You may easily lose a bank of keys on the same line as a group if one fails. This is not uncommon, and I advise looking at the matrix diagram to see if the keys share a common signal. 

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Thank you for the very important advise.

I got that advise earlier by a guy called Chris Torrence on youtube.

He also suggested to check the cable first before starting to "dive into action".

 

I did not check the matrix but checked the cable and then before soldering every single key by attaching short wires to hook my multimeter to.

So I could be sure to check the non working switches individually.

 

At 3:45 a.m. german time I was done ... I typed in the first program Integer Basic and let it run ..... YEAH ! 

Every key is working now and all show 0.3 ohms when being pressed.

 

I also started tolook around for a PS/" or USB Keyboard to Apple IIe solution ... and there are quite some out there.

 

Thanks everybody for giving me all the helpful hints and advises.

 

Michael

 

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OLD One wrote:I got that
OLD One wrote:

I got that advise earlier by a guy called Chris Torrence on youtube.

He also suggested to check the cable first before starting to "dive into action".

 

I did not check the matrix but checked the cable and then before soldering every single key by attaching short wires to hook my multimeter to.

So I could be sure to check the non working switches individually.

 

Brilliant, and good news! Enjoy your //e sir. 

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OLD One wrote:I only need to
OLD One wrote:

I only need to find a way to make it easier to get software loaded than by my Andorid Phone via the flaky cassette interface card.

I didn't know that the original Apple II had a seperate interface card for the cassette connection, I just know the onboard interface and that worked pretty stable on my II europlus. I used it to transfer disk images from the "Apple ][ Disk Server". Once I had a good volume setting on my iPad (about two third) it worked pretty well.

In the meantime I got me an SSC and do the transfers via ADT Pro... A Uthernet Card is the next "goal".

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May be off Topic but just a quick word ...

Now my Apple IIe is reassembled and I got a 80 colums card with it.

As far as I can see the disks that came with that card a booting into ProDos and the Self Test when presseing Solid Apple + Reset end with Kernel OK.

 

I tried to send down ProDos that came with ADTPro 2.0.6 and it ends with the "*" that would mean success.

Baut when I start ProDos it shows "Relocation / Configuration Error" and that's it.

Reading some finds in Google it can point to bad RAM or that my IIe is a normal, not modified one without enhanchement or so.

I will search the forum for help and maybe, open a new topic on that later.

Just for now, please do not go deeper as this thread should only be for keyswitch problems.

 

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OLD One wrote:I tried to send
OLD One wrote:

I tried to send down ProDos that came with ADTPro 2.0.6 and it ends with the "*" that would mean success.

Baut when I start ProDos it shows "Relocation / Configuration Error" and that's it.

That sounds strange to me. Did you double check the controller, disks and the drive are OK? - I have several disks that seem OK from the visual check, but when I insert and try to boot from them it doesn't work and I have to clean the drive afterwards.

 

Did you try to transfer disk images from the Apple ][ Disk Server, too?

 

If you feel more comfortable in german language, I can point you to another board, too...

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OLD One wrote: Now my Apple
OLD One wrote:

Now my Apple IIe is reassembled and I got a 80 colums card with it.

As far as I can see the disks that came with that card a booting into ProDos and the Self Test when presseing Solid Apple + Reset end with Kernel OK.

 

I tried to send down ProDos that came with ADTPro 2.0.6 and it ends with the "*" that would mean success.

Baut when I start ProDos it shows "Relocat

Relocation/configuration error is either bad upper 16K of (the lower 64K) RAM or a bad load/boot from ProDOS.
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pcbastler wrote:OLD One wrote
pcbastler wrote:
OLD One wrote:

I only need to find a way to make it easier to get software loaded than by my Andorid Phone via the flaky cassette interface card.

I didn't know that the original Apple II had a seperate interface card for the cassette connection, I just know the onboard interface and that worked pretty stable on my II europlus. I used it to transfer

The casette interface was built into all Apple ][ models, until the //c. The Apple 1 had a cassette interface card, and the protocols differ slightly to the Apple ][. It was also not very reliable FWIR. 

 

If you have a seral card, that is a better option for ADTPro. 

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No serial card so far. I

First thing first:

Can a mod please split this thread at the point where it went to a "ADTPro Problem because of ProDOS version no. to high for old IIe"  thread ?

That would be nice.

 

 

I do not have a serial card so far.

I ordered a set of PCB for the https://github.com/freitz85/AppleIISd and allready ordered a bunch of chips for the card on aliexpress.

Then hopefully a simple SD Card would be enough ...

 

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All Problems solved ... Topic done.

So, last post from my side here.

 

All 29 Keys with issues are fixed. 

Opend, cleaned with Kontakt 60 first, then Kontakt WL, final rinse with Tuner 900 then the little metal clip bend and adjusted.

Keys left open after reassembling for 2 days so, all remaining cleaner between contact plates could evaporate.

Switches individually tested and remounted.

 

Problem with software:

Thanks to a hint ProDOS 2.4.2 that comes with ADTPro 2.0.2 works for me now.

Working ProDOS aquired at Apple Disk Server because ADTPro doesn't work at all.

 

Problem:

Cassette out on my Apple IIe is dead. No sound on saving a basic programm nor the sound that ADTPro should do on the cassette out when in "?" menu.

I am right now searcing for schematics, found a lot of hints to sites here on forum. 

Already got some good sites and downloaded quite some helpfull schematics,

 

Thanks to everybody who helped by contributing information.

 

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