Applesoft ROM Card vs. Apple Language Card

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Applesoft ROM Card vs. Apple Language Card

I am resurrecting my Apple II (A2S1-9214) from late 1978.  I used it extensively and cut my code writing teeth on it in the early 1980s, but it has been dormant since then. 

It Boots into Monitor; Ctrl-G gives me Integer Basic (I replaced the F0 ROM); C600G starts the 3.3 System disk.  I can load and run Integer programs from there.The problem is the Applesoft (FP) ROM card has gone dead.  I pulled all the chips; deox'd them; seated everything; and all I get upon boot is a totally blank white screen and a hung system.

I am considering, instead of replacing the ROM Card, installing the Apple Language Card.  From what I've read, the Language Card gives me the F8 Autoboot to the system disk, 16K more of RAM, and the card will "load the language not found on the main board." 

Here's the question.  I've spent hours searching without success, so I assume everyone else knows the answer.  From where does the Language Card load Applesoft (FP) BASIC?  Is it in ROM on the Language Card or does it load it from the system disk?

I don't mind not having the autoboot; I've lived with 48K forever; but, I sure don't want to live with " 5/2=2"

 

Thanks.

Paul

 

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Paul, consider getting a ROM-X adapter

Paul, consider getting a ROM-X adapter.  Then you can have it all, including autoboot to DOS.

More on that option here:  https://theromexchange.com/

BTW, you'll want to pay attention to the revision of Motherboard you have.  Sounds like you might have the early version.

Hope this helps!

 

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Of course, ROMX is an

Of course, ROMX is an excellent solution!

 

But to answer your question, Applesoft is loaded from the boot disk (assuming FPBASIC and LC loading HELLO program are both there). Note that this adds quite a bit to the boot time. Of course, you could also just move the ROMs from the ROM card onto the motherboard. Assuming they're OK, you would then have the equivalent of an Apple II Plus. Not much use for Integer BASIC these days.

 

Any 16K RAM card (especially those WITHOUT the F8 ROM) would be better. And yes, ROMX gives you all that and more. Including instant boot to DOS and Language Card loading. See: https://www.applefritter.com/comment/91441#comment-91441

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Speaking of the ROMX...

Question about the ROMX...  

Can the brief Power-up onscreen menu be avoided so it doesn't interfere with other cards that are activated at the same time (e.g. QuikLoader. Booti w/total replay,etc.)?

Thanks

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mi2k wrote:Question about the
mi2k wrote:

Question about the ROMX...  

Can the brief Power-up onscreen menu be avoided so it doesn't interfere with other cards that are activated at the same time

 Yes. The delay can be set to zero and the menu will not be shown. However, the ROMX menu DOES NOT interfere with other boards that are activated during boot. For example the Booti will operate normally. That's because the Booti countdown actually does not start on power on, but only after the Autostart ROM finds the board and attempts to boot it.

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Applesoft in ROM or on System Disk

Very seriously considering the ROMX ....

With regards to the Language Card... Understand it has no language loaded, but loads whatever isn't on the motherboard from the disk.  I C600G and loaded Disk system 3.3 master.... still looking at the integer prompt after HELLO runs.

I must not be understanding something .... At the > I type:  "FP, S6, D1  [RETURN]" according to the DOS manual expecting FP to be loaded from the system disk, but it runs HELLO and returns to the integer prompt.

??

Paul

 

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Paul19804 wrote:Very
Paul19804 wrote:

Very seriously considering the ROMX ....

With regards to the Language Card... Understand it has no language loaded, but loads whatever isn't on the motherboard from the disk.  I C600G and loaded Disk system 3.3 master.... still looking at the integer prompt after HELLO runs.

I must not be understanding something .... At the > I type:  "FP, S6, D1  [RETURN]" according to the DOS manual expecting FP to be loaded from the system disk, but it runs HELLO and returns to the integer prompt.

??

 The original Apple Language card has an autoboot F8 ROM on it. 

Later "language" cards from Microsoft and other manufacturers did not.

 

Doesn't matter, the only functional difference between the two types is the presence of the Autoboot F8 ROM.

 

In any case, when you boot a DOS 3.3 MASTER disk, it should, once it begins booting, load whatever language is not present in ROM.  So if you have Applesoft in ROM it will automatically load up Integer BASIC and put it into the Language Card.

If you have Integer BASIC on your motherboard it will automatically load FP (Applesoft) BASIC into  the Langage Card. 

You should see the message "(LOADING APPLESOFT INTO LANGUAGE CARD)"

 

Then it ought to return you to whatever prompt is relevant to the on-board ROM's BASIC, so in your case you should see the > prompt.

Typing "FP" should switch you automatically to Applesoft.  You don't need to type anything afterwards. 

Type "INT" to return to the Integer BASIC prompt.

 

If this isn't happening either your DOS 3.3 system master isn't a system master or your Language Card is defective.

You can test the language card easily using Locksmith 6.0 which has a really good RAM/Language card test function.

 

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ROM Card vs. Language Card

Sorry, if I wasn't clear.  My Applesoft ROM card is dead and I don't have a Language Card.  I thought by "FP, S6, D1", the system disk would load Applesoft into motherboard RAM, since there is no language card.

Is there a way to load FP (Applesoft) from the system disk into RAM without a Language Card?

 

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There is a version of

There is a version of Applesoft called Applesoft 1, that can be loaded into the lower 48K RAM from cassette tape.  Note that it takes up a considerable piece of RAM that might limit the applications that you can run.

 

-Mike Willegal

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Paul19804 wrote:Sorry, if I
Paul19804 wrote:

Sorry, if I wasn't clear.  My Applesoft ROM card is dead and I don't have a Language Card.  I thought by "FP, S6, D1", the system disk would load Applesoft into motherboard RAM, since there is no language card.

Is there a way to load FP (Applesoft) from the system disk into RAM without a Language Card?

 

 No, you can't load Applesoft into the lower 48K without a lot of jiggery pokery.  And your programs won't run properly anyway.

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Disk Applesoft

Ok ... The books make is sound so easy.

Plain old Apple II, 48k.  Only card is the disk controller.

Boots to the monitor; Ctrl-B returns the Integer prompt >. 

PR#6 boots the DOS.   Using DOS 3.3 system disk dated 08/25/80.
Runs Hello and returns >integer prompt.
>FP Return accesses the disk (Whirl) and returns >integer prompt.
Now according to “The AppleSoft Tutorial” , Appendix D, Part 2, Diskette AppleSoft, page 134, floating-point has been loaded.  This is without the language card or ROM card
. .... and, “When you load or run a program in AppleSoft, DOS automatically switches to the correct language.“
When I “>RUN COLOR DEMOSOFT” an “A” program on the disk, the hello program runs again and I am back at the integer prompt.
 
Hmmm... not supposed to work like that according to the book.
 
Found an article on RETROCOMPUTING.STACKEXCHANGE.COM that advises:
 "For DOS 3.3 the mechanics to select either BASIC were kept the same, but RAM Applesoft was removed from the diskette. It was no longer (by default) supported to run Applesoft on an Apple II with Integer BASIC in ROM without a Language Card."
 
Oh, well.  I found a (two, in fact) language card on eBay and snatched them up.  The second one is for a 48K Apple II +, I recently acquired (tagged 8047).  Nice, cleaner than the Apple II I've owned since iits birth.
 
Thanks for all your help and advice.
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Interesting. I read the other

Interesting.

 

I read the other day in an old "Open-Apple" newsletter that there were four versions of DOS 3.3 released during its lifetime.

This would make things pretty confusing since there's no real convenient way to distinguish between them.

 

 

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