booting off a DOS 3.3 floppy - what should that look like? I forget!

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booting off a DOS 3.3 floppy - what should that look like? I forget!

Some 40 years ago, I knew how to boot my Apple IIe and what it should sound and look like.  But I've forgotten.

Online sources suggest I insert the DOS 3.3 floppy, and then turn the computer on.  I did that... not much sound came from the floppy, except for the sounds of the media being rotated.  I waited a while (a minute, two minutes?) and finally something came up on screen.  This looked very unfamiliar; what does it mean?

 

 

I tried typing a few things, but that just brought up errors.  Of course, I don't know what to type!  Need to look that up.

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The machine didn't read the

The machine didn't read the disk. It crashed to the "monitor". This is what a "blue screen" looked way back then.

It crashed at $803. The system loads the disk's boot sector to $800 and then executes it. Apparently the boot sector wasn't propery loaded (or the disk is corrupted), so it crashed right away.

It's also not normal for the disk to be loading for minutes. DOS should load almost instantly.

So, there are two options:

* The disk is bad - and its bootsector is corrupted. Do you have any other disks that work?

* The drive (or machine) is bad. It could be something simple like the drive's speed needing some recalibration. Could also be some defect with a component.

What you should normally get after loading a DOS disk is a simple

]

prompt. Depending on the disk it may also show some other output before.

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MacFly wrote:* The drive (or
MacFly wrote:

* The drive (or machine) is bad. It could be something simple like the drive's speed needing some recalibration. Could also be some defect with a component.

 

Sometimes components in the machine dies with age. It could be a defective RAM IC or something else.

Or sometimes the legs on ICs have corroded and thus provide poor contact in the socket.

It can be many things.

 

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I guess I'll be the first to

I guess I'll be the first to ask the most obvious question: what do you get without a floppy in the drive? Does it boot into AppleSoft Basic successfully? This is usually the first thing to do before trying to boot from a disk.

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tolderlund wrote:MacFly wrote
tolderlund wrote:
MacFly wrote:

* The drive (or machine) is bad. It could be something simple like the drive's speed needing some recalibration. Could also be some defect with a component.

 

Sometimes components in the machine dies with age. It could be a defective RAM IC or something else.

Or sometimes the legs on ICs have corroded and thus pr

 

Based on the keyboard (not an early //e with the white markings on the keys) it probably does not have socketed RAM.  If a RAM chip is bad, which is entirely possible, it will most likely have to be de-soldered and a socket installed in order to put a new chip in.

There are still a few socketed chips in the later //e, mostly the ROMs and the CPU.  Most of them had one or the other or both of the IOU and MMU chips soldered too.  The HAL and a couple 74LS chips are usually socketed.

 

 

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So when you power on you

So when you power on you should hear the floppy drive recalibrate...  bbbbrrrrrttttt-ttt-tttt  Then you should hear the whir of the drive spinning then some head movement (scratchy sounds) as it goes to track 1, then 11, then wherever the "HELLO" program is.

 

If you're not hearing that there is some kind of problem.  You should at least hear the recalibration.  You won't hear anything after that but the whirring of the drive spinning if the disk is not bootable.

 

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Another indication there is

Another indication there is something weird going on...  the floppy drive activity light shouldn't still be on if the drive isn't being read, and if you are sitting at a monitor prompt like that the drive couldn't be being read.  Also the location it is showing is curious.  It's around where Applesoft programs normally start by default and often where programs written in assembler are targeted for as well.  But it is odd that it is crashing there if nothing at all is being read from the floppy.  Have you tried a totally different disk?  If you get different results, even it crashing at a different location that might mean something.

 

 

 

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Thanks! Apple CPU runs. DuoDrive does not calibrate.

Thanks for all these great replies!

To answer some questions:

The apple CPU runs fine without a diskette: it boots into Apple Basic, and I've input a few lines of code to see it work again after all these years.  And it does work.

The DuoDisk makes no noise upon powering on, other than the very faint whirring of the media spinning.  There are no sounds indicative of head movement.  Thanks for that tip... it thus sounds like a hardware problem with the DuoDrive (e.g. bad RAM or whatever).  The interior of the DuoDrive is very clean.  I've also cleaned the head with some alcohol on a swab, even though it did not look dirty.  The rubber belt between motor and spindle looks good, as does the steel "belt" that moves the head.  Pictures of interior of drive are in this other topic, about a mechanical problem I was having, inserting the floppy.

Next I'll follow the suggestion of what happens with any other floppy.  I only have this one DOS floppy - I just purchased it recently from a vendor online - so my other floppies contain some software and files, but no system (so far as I know).

Too bad if after finally figuring out my "mechanical" problem the drive is now bad...  how could I test for e.g. bad RAM, and can such a chip even be obtained in the after market?

Boris

 

 

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Do you have the ability to

Do you have the ability to run disk images downloaded from the Net (like a floppy emulator, CFFA3000 card or a Dan ][ Controller)?

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This screen is VERY common

This screen is VERY common when attempting to boot a disk. It shows that the computer read the first boot block into location $800, attempted to execute it starting at $801 (which is normal as the first byte is just a flag) and then crashed into the monitor most likely because $801 contains $00 (BRK instruction). You could verify this by typing 801L at the * prompt.

 

Whenever the CPU encounters this instruction, it prints out the current address + 2 (thus 803) followed by a register dump. Your first step is to try a different diskette. If that doesn't work then try cleaning the head. After that, it would most likely be a bad pressure pad or disk speed adjustment. Other hardware issues would be a bad disk controller card or the head amplifier (MC3470 chip) on the drive analog board.

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If you aren't hearing it

If you aren't hearing it recalibrate you may have a hardware problem with the controller card or the drive.

 

One question...  What slot is your disk controller in?  It should be in 6.  Definitely NOT in slot 3, as it won't work there in a //e.  What other cards are present in the system and in what slots?

 

If you get a monitor prompt, can you do "C600L"  That should give a reasonable looking assembler dump.  If it is all zeros or FFs and ??? then your disk controller may be bad.

 

It should look like this:

 

 

 

 

 

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softwarejanitor wrote:If you
softwarejanitor wrote:

If you aren't hearing it recalibrate you may have a hardware problem with the controller card or the drive.

 

One question...  What slot is your disk controller in?  It should be in 6.  Definitely NOT in slot 3, as it won't work there in a //e.  What other cards are present in the system and in what slots?

 

If you get a monitor prompt, can

Keep the troubleshooting simple, like softwarejanitor's suggestion for checking slot location of the DuoDisk controller being in slot 6 where it should be.  The "ratta-tat-tat" of the floppy being booted is key to knowing the hardware is controlling the moving read/write head with the lead screw mechanism.

 

AND...make sure the cable connections between the DuoDisk cable and the floppy controller' (the DB-19 to DB-25 cable & plugs) are clean and making good mechancial connetion.

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Answers/notes:On the main

Answers/notes:

On the main board, I have the printer card in slot 6, and a 64k memory expansion card in the AUX CONNECTOR slot.

 

I've cleaned cable contacts, and re-connected using the screws to tighten it all down.

 

I did another boot, and this time I heard the drive re-calibrating, proper read/head movement noises, and got the system screen (like Macfly posted)!

 

Hurrah; it seems that just the cable connection was not solid.  Thank you all very much for these tips.

 

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retroformat wrote:Answers
retroformat wrote:

Answers/notes:

On the main board, I have the printer card in slot 6, and a 64k memory expansion card in the AUX CONNECTOR slot.

I've cleaned cable contacts, and re-connected using the screws to tighten it all down.

I did another boot, and this time I heard the drive re-calibrating, proper read/head movement noises, and got the system screen (like Macf

ly posted)!

Hurrah; it seems that just the cable connection was not solid.  Thank you all very much for these tips.

 

Yeah!  Congratulations!

 

 

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