Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

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sm3
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Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

Hi, I've been using an Apple IIc with the 5.25" drive mostly, but have recently purchased a UniDisk 3.5" drive. I was able to use ADTpro and download ProDos for my 5.25 drives with no issues, however, I'm running into a problem with the 3.5" drive.

I downloaded a disk image from apple.com "Apple_II_System_Disk_4.0.2" but it has a file suffix of .img and I'm not really sure what to do with it. I've only had experience with using .dsk up to this point.

How can I convert the .img file to something that I can transfer for a real 800k 3.5" disk?

Thanks,

Steve

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

You might be able to do it with Ciderpress.

http://ciderpress.sourceforge.net/

sm3
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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

insanitor wrote:
You might be able to do it with Ciderpress.

http://ciderpress.sourceforge.net/

I took a look at CiderPress. This ".img" file is supposedly in DiskCopy format (at least I think). I think I'm going to try and just rename it to .dsk and see if I can transfer it then.

Thanks!

Steve

Hmm, actually, the CiderPress page says .img is Copy II Plus.

sm3
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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

Yeah, it says "not a recognized disk image format". I need to either find a .dsk or figure out some other way.

Steve

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

Why not try Copy II Plus?

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

first session:
1st drive 5,25 2nd drive 3,5
Boot ProDOS from 5.25
start copy II plus
format 3,5 disk in second drive
change disk from drive 1 ( 5,25 ) Copy II Plus >out and ProDOS Master > in
copy all files and subdirectories from drive 1 ( 5,25 ) to drive 2 ( 3,5 ) using filecopy mode
Recommendation:
make second disk in drive 2 ( 3,5 ) same way as last one
second session:
shut down computer and then change order of drives
1st drive 3,5 2nd drive 5,25
leave the disk, that has been created, in disk 1 ( 3.5 )
startup computer booting from new 3,5 disk......
speedyG

Update:
proposal from David Schmidt is better, because that disk contains several special files for use
with IIc models.

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

Just grab the image from Asimov. Sorry, the URL system on Applefritter is hopelessly broken for URLs with spaces in the name... just copy everything below into your browser's address bar, minus the quotes:
"ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/masters/model_specific/Apple IIe IIc IIc Plus System Disk.po"

sm3
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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

david__schmidt wrote:
Just grab the image from Asimov...
[url=ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/masters/model_specific/Apple IIe IIc IIc Plus System Disk.po]ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/masters/model_specific/Apple IIe IIc IIc Plus System Disk.po[/url]

Hmm, I guess I missed this one, probably because it doesn't say "ProDos" or "System Disk 4.0.2". Thanks!

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

No problem. ADTPro should be able to handle DiskCopy 4.2 images natively, but it didn't seem to have a lot of luck with the one on Apple's site... I'll have to have a look at that. I'm doing everything I can to eradicate lesser-supported file formats (.shk, .sdk, .dc4, etc.) but obviously I don't have a lot of influence over Apple's site.

sm3
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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

speedyG wrote:
first session:
1st drive 5,25 2nd drive 3,5
Boot ProDOS from 5.25
start copy II plus
format 3,5 disk in second drive
change disk from drive 1 ( 5,25 ) Copy II Plus >out and ProDOS Master > in
copy all files and subdirectories from drive 1 ( 5,25 ) to drive 2 ( 3,5 ) using filecopy mode
Recommendation:
make second disk in drive 2 ( 3,5 ) same way as last one
second session:
shut down computer and then change order of drives
1st drive 3,5 2nd drive 5,25
leave the disk, that has been created, in disk 1 ( 3.5 )
startup computer booting from new 3,5 disk......
speedyG

Wow, thanks, didn't even know I could do this. I suppose I just need to download a Copy II Plus image to use with ADTpro.

sm3
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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

"..ADTPro should be able to handle DiskCopy 4.2 images natively, but it didn't seem to have a lot of luck with the one on Apple's site..."

OK, I looked at the file formats it supported and didn't see .img (unless I missed it) so I didn't even try to use it. Thanks for the assistance!

sm3
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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

So here is a stupid question Wink

I've got an Apple IIc with an external 5.25 and the 3.5 drive. What determines boot priority? Does it just matter which drive has a bootable disk in it? I suppose it will always try to boot off the internal drive first of course.

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

I have never owned a iic, but as I understand it, the highest slot number is what boots first. The slots are assigned to your particular bootup depending on your hardware configuration.

If in case you can't get the 3.5 to boot because it's in a lower numbered slot, then boot off of the higher numbered slot with a disk that boots to basic and at the prompt type pr#5 if your 3.5 drive is in slot 5 for example. Usually a 3.5 drive goes into slot 5.

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

Boot priority at IIc is determined by association of slot to drive and - if several booting devices contain
bootable content ( disk with OS and startupfiles ) by the order highest slot first.
thereafter you may use the PR# command at the prompt and reboot from
any slot with bootable content.

proposal above demanded following conditions:
1. existing ProDOS Masterdisk availiable and readable in internal drive
2. ADTpro is present and availiable with working Disk for use with internal drive
3. Copy II Plus.DSK is present at local PC or MAC
4. creating Disk from Copy II Plus.dsk image at internal drive.
5. external diskdrive is set to S5,D1
6. internal diskdrive is set to S6,D1
rest as explained above in first posting and remembering thereafter the rules in the first lines of this posting....

[ in case of doubt: consult your IIc manual at page 126 !
and beware of the notes within the technical notes #0007 about the IIc ( listing of different versions
and abilities of IIc dependent to the ROM Versions !!! - #0007 - Existing versions !!! ]
speedyG

sm3
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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

Thanks, makes sense.

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

sm3 wrote:
OK, I looked at the file formats it supported and didn't see .img (unless I missed it) so I didn't even try to use it.

Well, it's just as well you didn't - I'm not sure exactly _what_ format that disk is in. It's not DC42. As for file suffixes, they're a nice hint. But they're only a hint. It doesn't uniquely or even definitively identify what the underlying content is. For example, ".dsk" can mean a disk that is either in DOS or ProDOS order. Oh, and some folks used to use ".dsk" to signify a DiskCopy formatted image, too. This is all to say... don't get too attached to the suffix. Sometimes it lies.

Automatic/transparent detection of DiskCopy images came in version 1.2.3 back in 2012:
http://adtpro.sourceforge.net/historyold.html

sm3
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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

It's funny, because I downloaded that *.img file from the Syndicomm site as well. Still who knows what format it is Wink

I went ahead and ordered a 3.5 System Disk from them. At least I'll have a backup I know works.

Thanks again for all the pointers from you folks!

Steve

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

I tried Copy ii plus 7.1, no dice. I tried Winimage 6.0 and that didn't work either.

I am betting that it's a format that can be opened by a mac. Lots of the image formats on the older software page at apple.com can be opened by a mac.

I am willing to bet that this program can do the job, but I am not willing to try it because something is wrong with my mac LC. It has been behaving a little crazy.

http://www.vectronicsappleworld.com/appleii/internet.html#diskimage

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

How much time will be wasted with an image that seemingly does not work ?
in alternate picture: why fly from Boston direct to New York if you may
instead make some small stops in Seatle and in L.A. for breakfast and have lunch in New Orleans before
taking brunch in Atlanta before boarding for NY ?

How much time would be requested to make a working disk by following up the
alternate path ? ( i guess probably 25 minutes maximum for working disk... )
just a question to think about ....
speedyG

sm3
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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

speedyG wrote:
How much time will be wasted with an image that seemingly does not work ? ..

Yes, please don't waste any further time on my account, I have several solutions to the issue now. Unless of course you just want to satisfy your own curiosity Wink

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Re: Creating Apple IIc 3.5 System Disk...

The problem with the Apple II images on Apple's site is that a) they're in DiskDoubler archive format (which fortunately The Unarchiver/unar can extract), and b) as compared with a proper 800K raw image (819,200 bytes), they not only have the Disk Copy 4.2 84-byte header, but also 19,200 extra bytes at the end, resulting in an incorrect total size of 838,484 bytes.

I can't remember exactly where this caused problems for me in my travels, but specifically remember that it did, and that chopping off the 19,200 bytes at the end fixed things; the A2SERVER netboot install script does this after downloading the GS/OS disk images from Apple, using the command 'dd if="dc42ImageName" of="diskImageName.po" bs=1 skip=84 count=819200'.

I think the extra bytes at the end are an artifact of the Mac's original MFS file system, which has 12 extra "tag bytes" per block in addition to the 512 data bytes, and which Disk Copy 4.2 is probably designed to store.

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