Failed to boot from floppy

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Failed to boot from floppy

Hello everybody,I write from Italy and I joined this active group because I was looking for information on how to identify the boot problem of my Apple IIe that I used when I was young.My first computer was the AIM-65 (the same 6502)I would like to know if anyone can help me identify the problem step by step.For now I am dealing with deep (very deep) cleaning.Here you see my idea of MoBo in the dishwasher at 65 ° C (with degreaser and detergent without rinse aid) and then in the oven at 45 * C for 8h.Isopropyl alcohol is very expensive now. :(Don't worry: MoBo still works with the same boot problem. :)

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Hi there,

Hi there,

Your motherboard in an Apple II+ (not an Apple //e).

Can you share pictures of the boot screen without any card  in slot ?

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Thanks for the clarification

Thanks for the clarification on the model.Now, the keyboard is waiting for isopropyl acool, now it is difficult to find and expensive.I attach the photo of the boot, which does not present any problems.I had already tried to replace the controller board and floppy disk drive, without success.My inexperienced impression is that the problem is in some microchip of the mobo.When the keyboard is clean, I will also post the sound of the drive at boot time

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Update:with great difficulty
Update:with great difficulty I managed to internally clean and reassemble the keyboard made up of all the metal strips for the contacts ... :(Now the keyboard works perfectly.Carcando to make a boot video, I realized that the computer can boot from a floppy disk containing basic applications, while it fails from a floppy disk containing games.At this point I wonder if it can be an insufficient memory problem.I don't remember what the white, empty IC-socket with the word "RAM" was for.
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The disk controller should be

The disk controller should be in slot 6. A language card with the cable to this white socket should be in slot 0.

 

 

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Hi everyone,I tried to put
Hi everyone,I tried to put this card, not original, which should be a memory expansion, in slot 0.The boot tried to read disk drive 2.Then I removed a chip from the card (ET 4116N-3 / M5) and put it in RAM socket C58 and the system entered the monitor; I immediately turned off because the chip was too hot (maybe it burned).If I leave the RAM socket C58 free, and remove the RAM expansion sk, everything returns as before and the floppy containing a BASIC program is loaded.Sorry for my inexperience.
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BIT wrote:Then I removed a
BIT wrote:

Then I removed a chip from the card (ET 4116N-3 / M5) and put it in RAM socket C58 and the system entered the monitor; I immediately turned off because the chip was too hot (maybe it burned). 

No, no, no, no... What exactly have you done? Did you plug a RAM chip into the white socket? Nooo... This socket is not for a chip. It's for the ribbon connector from the language card  - your gray ribbon cable with the blue plug. That's why this socket is white - and not black like all the other sockets to be used for chips.

If you really removed a single RAM chip and plugged it into this socket, then at least this chip will be fried. Maybe more. Wish you luck! ;-)

Don't be too brave before testing such things. Better ask first...

Btw, C58 is the label of the "capacitor 58" - which indeed is next to the white socket for the ribbon cable. Oh dear!

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MacFly wrote:
MacFly wrote:
This socket is not for a chip...

 Actually, what BIT did was perfectly legitimate. That socket should contain a RAM chip if you want to restore the motherboard to 48K. They made the socket white in later revisions to help people identify which chip needed to be removed and replaced with the jumper cable.

 

If the chip overheated it was either inserted incorrectly or was already bad. You can contine to run the computer as is - with the RAM chip missing - but it will only recognize 32K which will prevent some programs from running. Eventually you will want to get a working language card installed so you can bring the computer back to 64K of RAM.

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Hi Fabio, 

Hi Fabio, 

 

Please ignore the PM I just sent you.  I see this is an Apple II+ and you are asking the forum for help to troubleshoot this.   What disk are you trying to boot with?  If you have a DOS 3.3 disk, it should boot without the 16K card in the unit.  

 

Also - Can you describe what happens during the boot process?  Does the motor continue to run and light stay on, or does it stop?   

 

Thanks,

Jay 

 

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BIT wrote:Hi everyone,I tried
BIT wrote:

Hi everyone,I tried to put this card, not original, which should be a memory expansion, in slot 0.The boot tried to read disk drive 2.Then I removed a chip from the card (ET 4116N-3 / M5) and put it in RAM socket C58 and the system entered the monitor; I immediately turned off because the chip was too hot (maybe it burned).If I leave the RAM socket C58 free, and remove the RAM e

 

You might have inserted the ribbon cable (16 pin DIP) backwards, and damaged all of the RAM on the card. These cards are thankfully cheap and plentiful, last I knew.

 

Please circle, on that photo, the exact chip that you pulled and tried to use. The 4116Ns are the actual RAM chips. 

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MacFly wrote:BIT wrote:Then I
MacFly wrote:
BIT wrote:

Then I removed a chip from the card (ET 4116N-3 / M5) and put it in RAM socket C58 and the system entered the monitor; I immediately turned off because the chip was too hot (maybe it burned). 

No, no, no, no... What exactly have you done? Did you plug a RAM chip into the white socket? Nooo... This socket is not for a chip. It's

 

Ehhhh? I've seen systems with a RAM chip in the language card RAM-Exp. What is this, now?

 

In fact, I have pulled that chip to insert language+16K RAM cards.

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replay :)Thanks to everyone

replay :)Thanks to everyone for the answers: you are very kind.Sorry for my english.1- my Apple II is "Europlus" (thanks amauget)2-the flat connector of the expansion card was mounted correctly; the 4116 chip was also installed correctly3- (to MacFly) I remembered that the white socket could be used to complete the memory bank if the expansion card was not installed.4-now I have removed the RAM expansion card and also the "hot" 4116 chip and everything is back as before5- now, when I turn on the computer, BASIC is working properly and I can write a program and run it6-if I install the FD controller card in slot 6, only some floppy disks are loaded: they are all programs with BASIC applications;floppy disks containing games are not loaded and the drive LED remains on.7- I have more FD controller cards and FD drives that I can use.thanks again to everyone for the help

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BIT wrote:replay :)Thanks to
BIT wrote:

replay :)Thanks to everyone for the answers: you are very kind.Sorry for my english.1- my Apple II is "Europlus" (thanks amauget)2-the flat connector of the expansion card was mounted correctly; the 4116 chip was also installed correctly3- (to MacFly) I remembered that the white socket could be used to complete the memory bank if the expansion card was not installed.4-no

 

6. This could either be because (1) You lack sufficient RAM (48K is a general minimum), (2) the diskettes are bad, or 93) the speed of the disk motor is wrong. DOS 3.3 is easy to load as it contains no special copy protection schemes, but games usually do, and disk speed issues will cause havoc with them. 

 

2. That board has eight 4116 chips. Perhaps tey each one, and be absolutely sure that it is oriented properly and that its pins are all seated. 

 

In BASIC, use the command FRE and tell us how much RAM it reports, please:

 

PRINT FRE(0)

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Hi Timelord,

Hi Timelord,

 

without boards, the FRE (0) command returns me:30717

 

with only the board expansion RAM card, it returns me-18435

with expansion RAM and controller Floppy Disk, it return me the error:\0105-    A = 5C   X = 0B   Y = 00   P = 36   S = FE*

 

Thanks

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BIT wrote:Hi Timelord,
BIT wrote:

Hi Timelord,

 

without boards, the FRE (0) command returns me:30717

 

with only the board expansion RAM card, it returns me-18435

with expansion RAM and controller Floppy Disk, it return me the error:\0105-    A = 5C   X = 0B   Y = 00   P = 36   S = FE*

 

Thank

 

This tells me that your system seeks 32K. The last bit is a drop to monitor. 

 

Try each of the 4116 chips on the board, and try the same FRE command if any of them allow you to boot to BASIC. In that event, you should see a 48K system. 

 

If you desperately need a RAM board, I probably have spares, but no spare cables. I can test the bugger and ensure it is good here, but that is the end of my guarantees, as I pretty much do not comply with putting a mainboard in a dishwasher as an appropriate cleaning technique, and I cannot rule out any sort of issue with doing that. 

 

At the worst, it'll be cheap, but at the same time, I cannot promise any sort of fast delivery, as it simply cannot be at the top of my priority chain. I will test spare boards when I have a chance, in the event that you would want this; if not, you can try a known good cmplete language card from someone else. 

 

In the meanwhile, try the other 4116s. 

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Hi Timelord,I don't need

Hi Timelord,I don't need 4116s more, but a way to check the efficiency of what I have.I'm looking for an inexpensive DRAM TESTER, even with Arduino or Raspberry.Can you give me some advice?

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BIT wrote:Hi Timelord,I don't
BIT wrote:

Hi Timelord,I don't need 4116s more, but a way to check the efficiency of what I have.I'm looking for an inexpensive DRAM TESTER, even with Arduino or Raspberry.Can you give me some advice?

 

https://hackaday.com/2016/03/18/testing-dram-one-byte-at-a-time/

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Great.I have a Mega 2560 in

Great.I have a Mega 2560 in the drawer :)I found the May 1991 issue of Radio Electronics Magazine a DRAM tester (Startek DT90), but it's not that simple.  Can you confirm this methodology, among the answers of your link?: - "Take a * well known * and slightly stretch the pins inward so that they rest firmly on the" in use "slots (perhaps welded). Now place the known good chip on top of each other in turn until the drive doesn't come to life - you've found your first (and hopefully only) defective chip - replace it.NOTE: Power must be turned off when placing the piggyback chip or removing it or * killing * it *! "

I'm going immediately to look for a ZIFF socket :)

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I looked at the circuit

I looked at the circuit diagram, but I think it's dangerous: if any one of the RAM's pins is shorted to ground, the arduino dies: OCan anyone confirm this to me?Any other projects or kits for sale?

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BIT wrote:I looked at the
BIT wrote:

I looked at the circuit diagram, but I think it's dangerous: if any one of the RAM's pins is shorted to ground, the arduino dies: OCan anyone confirm this to me?Any other projects or kits for sale?

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/289391-dramarduino-dram-tester-with-arduino/

 

I suggest discussing it here, as several of the people have built one, and you need to modify the design to work with 4116 chips anyway to provide +12VDC.

 

There are methods of hand-testing these chips for shorts, and thos could, or may already, be designed into this. I have yet to build one, and I do not know all of the specific details on the Arduino devices, as there are so many flipping models and variations. You can potentially ohm out the power and earth pins and see if you get a zero reading between any pairs--that'd be bad. 

 

RAM, particularly 4116s, that overheat that quickly, are likely shorting on the +12VDC pin, depending on the current draw, +5 or -5 could do it, I suppose. 

 

Some old PROM and EPROM encoders have the ability to test comon RAM chips, too, but I do not know what to advise there. I could use similar advice on what EPROM programmer to get these days, to pop out ERPOMs for the ][ series, that I can easily interface with a Win7 laptop. (I thankfuly still have serial in/out, because this is a military application unit.)

 

Keep in mind that the different-sized RAM ICs do not share a single, universal testing method, so the fact that this cheap device with a little work on a perf board can act to test at least three common types seems ideal. IDK how much I truest the construction of the base device anyway, but at the least I'd trust the parts that I assemble, which would certainly not be RoHS. :D

 

Here is some additional content for you:

http://labs.frostbox.net/2020/03/24/4116-d-ram-tester-with-schematics-and-code/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVZYB54VD2g

 

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1426

 

https://archive.org/stream/radio_electronics_1991-05/Radio_Electronics_May_1991#mode/2up

This issue has a detailed article about making a 4164 tester. You would need to adapt it to work with 4116, but it has very useful information. 

 

I will again say that one of the safest ways around this issue is to buy some tubes of new stock 4116Ns. It's a good idea to keep tubes of fresh 4116, 4164, and 41256 chips in sock if you work with a lot of vintage micros. At least all of the chips on the ][ and ][+/europlus are socketed. 

 

 

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Hi Timelord

Hi Timelord

one moment, I don't understand.You say that I have only 32KB; but studing, I found that the result:-18435means: -18435 + 65536 = 47710which are 48KB

are you sure the problem is a defective 4116 chip?

 

 

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BIT wrote:Hi Timelord one
BIT wrote:

Hi Timelord

one moment, I don't understand.You say that I have only 32KB; but studing, I found that the result:-18435means: -18435 + 65536 = 47710which are 48KB

are you sure the problem is a defective 4116 chip?

 

Integer rollover here. AppleSoft BASIC uses signed 16 bit ints, so, as soon as the count hits 32767, it rolls over to negative values.

 

I was quoting this:

 

without boards, the FRE (0) command returns me:30717

 

That is 32K. With the RAM board, you should be getting a negaive value of ~ -30K. 64K rolls over, but BASIC/DOS eat up some RAM, so you end up with around -30000 free if you are seeing all RAM on a 64K system.

 

Likewise:

 

with only the board expansion RAM card, it returns me-18435

 

If you saw that value on a 48K system, then, aye, it is fine, but if you had the language/RAM card installed, then one bank of 16 bits * 8 was not registering. 

 

BIT
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Without boards, with the

Without boards, with the white socket busy, I get the value -18435With the FDC installed, I get the error:$0104 A = 24 X = 0B Y = 00 p = 36 S = FE*

I also get the same error with another FDC.Tomorrow I can check if all the error values are equal

Do you have any idea where to start the diagnosis?
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With the FDC in slot 6, do

With the FDC in slot 6, do this:

Type CALL -151 followed by RETURN key.

At the asterisk prompt, type C600L and return.

Send a screenshot of what you get.

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What happened? O thought that

What happened? I thought that you sorted the issue with the Disk ][ card and had this sorted, and now you were on to memory size???

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Should this command be given

Should this command be given with 4116 inserted on the white socket?

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BIT wrote:Should this command
BIT wrote:

Should this command be given with 4116 inserted on the white socket?

 Doesn't matter.

I'm confused that earlier you said the disk drive was working (with some disks) but now when you issue the FRE() command with the controller card present it drops you into the monitor. That would seem to indicate some issue with the card (or the slots, since you've already tried another FDC). That's what concerns me.

 

BTW, the value -18435 is correct for a 48K machine. Applesoft doesn't use or care about the extra 16K on the Language Card.

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Update:

Update:

I have available:

N.3 FDC:c1) original Applec2) original Applec3) Apple compatible

N.6 FDD:d1) Drive1 original Apple full-sized2) Apple full-size Drive2 originald3) Drive1 Comp II (TEAC) half-sized4) Drive2 Comp II (TEAC) half-sized5) Drive1 Lemon II (Shugard mod.390) full-sized6) Drive2 Lemon II (Shugard mod.390) full-size

by exchanging the components, I verified that:c1, c2, d1, d2, d4 have the same functioning and the same errors on the monitor.I deduce that only these 4 objects are reliable.I think the problem is on the MoBo.

These are the tests performed:with the "CALL -150" command (and 4116 on the white socket):flows from 00CA to 00F400F4- FF ??? = 79

 

with the "CALL -150" command (and 4116 not inserted on the white socket):flows from 00CA up to 00F100F1 - 01 00 HOUR ($ 00, X) = 79

 

Trying the FDD, I think I have ruined the only floppy disk that started with simple BASIC applications.Now, that floppy disk, it doesn't work anymore.If it can be useful, trying other floppy disks, one has the name "Prodos",it return me the error: "Relocation Error"

thanks for any indication that can help me

 

 

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The CALL -151 command was

The CALL -151 command was meant to be issued from BASIC ( ] prompt) to get you into the monitor ( * prompt).

From your response, it appears you were already in monitor so it attmpted to list memory. But even this shows something wrong.

 

00F1 - 01 00 ORA ($ 00, X) = 79   (I assume you translated ORA to HOUR) is the correct response whether the white socket is populated or not.

Unless you typed it incorrectly the first time, the   00F4-FF ???=79 response is not correct (even though you said you typed CALL -150, the response indicates that you correctly typed CALL -151). If you can repeat these results then there definitely is something weird going on with your motherboard. I'd start with swapping the F8 ROM to see if that changes anything.

 

 

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Might be the 74LS138s that

Might be the 74LS138 that handles ROM slot select, too; or one of the ones that handles slot select.

 

The slot select chips are in row H, the ROM select is in row F, iirc. ROM select is in the same bank as the ROMs, to their right as I recall. 

Please don't use dishwashers to clean electronics...

 

There is also a 74Ls08 that works in the ROM select circuit.

 

P.S. I would not have suspected F8 vecause it does drop to BASIC w/o the Disk ][ card, and it does try to autostart. I suppose it could still be, though?

 

TBH, this seems like a slot bus IO conflict or general data corruption. 

 

Wasn't there a testing aid that was available on cassette at one point?  Perhaps coold booting from some of the tape stream images might help?

Where are you located?

BIT
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Hi Timelord,I'm from Verona

Hi Timelord,I'm from Verona (Italy).Why don't you like  my dishwasher?Can you tell me only one scientific contraindication, after 8h in a 45 ° C fan oven for drying?I haven't found any. :Obelieve me, Apple's problems are prior to washing in the dishwasher :)

I have another compatible Apple II, stopped since 1984, from which I could recover the components; but I would like to use a more intelligent approach to diagnosis, than to change all the ICs.

I also found a box full of original and photocopied manuals that I used in those times.

I didn't know what the CALL -151 instruction needednow i see it's just the MONITOR call from BASIC.I confirm that the command inserted in the PC is CALL -151 and that the result is different with the insertion of the 4116 in the white base; the last line of the list, which I copy is this:"00F1- 01 00 HOUR ($ 00, X) = 79"

This weekend I will have more time to do other tests.

If you give me support, I could try to download some tests through the audio port with "Apple] [Disk Server" that I have never used.

Thanks for your help

 

 

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BIT wrote:Hi Timelord,I'm
BIT wrote:

Hi Timelord,I'm from Verona (Italy).Why don't you like  my dishwasher?Can you tell me only one scientific contraindication, after 8h in a 45 ° C fan oven for drying?

 

You are ignoring the basic issues with this cleaning method.

 

Water jets, ion streams, minerals dissolved in the water that are now on all of your contacts. Heat exposure, depending on your washer, damaging components and joints. 

 

There is a reason that we don't do this with sensitive components, boards, and sockets. The trace elements and salts residues alone could be causing havoc or igniting long-term deterioration.

 

That said, if it has this issue aforehand, then, it clearly isn't immediately/directly related, but I will gladly pay the price/litre for denatured alcohol (and I do) to never need to worry about this kind of hazard.

 

You are entirely ignoring the process involved, speificallt the dissolved elements in the water, its application, and its temperature. If you soaked the boad severl times in a bath of distilled water, then, aye, that may be safe, but spraying jets of your municipal water source at it, and potentially hot jets, could easily damage things.

 

Anyway, I know someone in Italy with ][+ components. If you want me to put the two of you in contact, I will. It may be the best way for you to find ][+ ICs without resorting to buying International. 

 

 

BIT
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Hi Timelord,don't worry, the

Hi Timelord,don't worry, the MoBo has the same problems as before washing, but now it definitely breathes better, without the PM10-based dirt cover.If I can make it work, I hope to find you here again to be able to tell you that my washing caused the damage you announced :)Any contact to recover ][+ components can help me and I thank you.

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Hi Timelord,I tried to

Hi Timelord,I tried to replace the 74LS138 with another certainly working, but that's not it.I tried to replace the 74LS08 with another certainly working, but it is not this.I didn't understand the other tests to do ... :(

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BIT wrote:Hi Timelord,I tried
BIT wrote:

Hi Timelord,I tried to replace the 74LS138 with another certainly working, but that's not it.I tried to replace the 74LS08 with another certainly working, but it is not this.I didn't understand the other tests to do ... :(

Did ou test all three locations of the 73S138?

 

if all of those passed, it is on to the F8 ROM swap, as advised, and then the CPU/RAM. I do not know how much time you are prepared to invest, but ][+ maiboards remain rather inexpensive, when availavble. Once ou delve into an issue this complex, the ASGs say to 'replace the mainboard', and other literature has no one specific answer.  

 

Keep in mind that you cannot socket an EPROM in the ROM sockets without making an adapter socket to go between the mainboard socket and the EPROM.

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Hi Timelord,I replaced the N.

Hi Timelord,I replaced the N. 3 74LS138, but nothing has changed. :(I can't replace the single ROM D8, because the Apple D8 EPROM clone, I don't think it's compatible.Can I replace all 6 ROMs with the 6 EPROM 2716?I can also create an EPROM, if an image of the D8 ROM is available somewhere: I have a beautiful HILO ALL-11 that still works, but I have to prepare a PC with serial and Win XP :)

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Upgrade (if it can be useful

Upgrade (if it can be useful for some suggestions:

 

I replaced the whole E3 / E10 bank with N.8 4116 in working order.No boards inserted.At power on, the promp BASIC appears and allows me to write.At each command it gives me an error.

If I turn on the computer I type the command:PRINT (space) 1 (enter)the errors are always different:0040-403D-0085-003D-0040-BF3A-9D3A-

the same problem also happens by removing the 4116 of the bank E3 / E10, while 2 days ago, with this same configuration it worked and ran even simple BASIC programs of the Floppy Disk.

 

thanks in advance for any indication

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BIT wrote:Hi Timelord,I
BIT wrote:

Hi Timelord,I replaced the N. 3 74LS138, but nothing has changed. :(I can't replace the single ROM D8, because the Apple D8 EPROM clone, I don't think it's compatible.Can I replace all 6 ROMs with the 6 EPROM 2716?I can also create an EPROM, if an image of the D8 ROM is available somewhere: I have a beautiful HILO ALL-11 that still works, but I have to prepare a PC with ser

You cannot put an EPROM into those sockets without construction an adatper using two sockets wired up to do pin conversion. 

 

See:

 

http://www.willegal.net/appleii/appleii-integer.htm

https://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2010-03-06-problems-with-replacement-appleII-eproms.htm

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/229489-replacing-apple-ii-roms-with-2716-eproms/?do=findComment&comment=3068099

 

I am not sure what a lot of you are saying in your latest post means. Did you install ONLY a total of 16K, only filling one bank, with nothing in any slot, including nothing in slot zero?

 

I suggest ordering 16K of new 4116 RAM, stripping all of the existing RAM out, and installing the new ICs. Be absolutely sure to be ESD safe. Most of the components that we have been describing that can fail are quite ESD sensitive. All RAM chips in a single 16K bank should be of the same brand, and must have the same  timing.

 

If you are mixing RAM in a bank from different manufacturers, or with different timing, then it can result in bit degredation or shifting that will corrupt values. 

 

The general procedure for intermittent errors is as follows:

 

Replace, then test each of these in sequence, one at a time:

 

RAM, in banks, with known good RAM.

74LS139 (2/4 Decoder) at mainboard location F2

74LS139 (2/4 Decoder) at mainboard location E2

74LS20 (NAND gate) at mainboard location D2

74ls138 (3/8 Decoder) at mainboard location F12

6502 CPU at mainboard location H7

ROM Select 74LS138s. 

ROM Set; the rightmost ROM is the lowest in the memory map.  F8 is what has been suggested to replace, but as you can get to BASIC w/o crashing, I feel this is wrong. F8 is the lowest address space, and contains the monitor and autostart, as I understand things. I suppose it could still be bad, and you would have some corruption in memory, which could in theory explain a lot of things, so if you want to replace a ROM, start with F8, then F8, then E8, then E0, then D8, then finally, D0. 

 

 

You can probably still find a complete set of Apple ][+ AppleSoft ROMs inexpensively. 

 

When replacing the CPU, be sure to use only parts 6502, and 6502-II, or 6502A if you cannot find the first two. Do not use alternatives such as the 6510, as these are not pin compatible, and I do not advise using a 65C02 in the ][+.  Although the CMOS 65C02 is pin-compatible with the NMOS 6502, I find that I will want NMOS components when possible on the ][ and ][+, but that could merely be my opinion and experience. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks TimeLord,

Thanks TimeLord,

in the previous post I meant to say that I had left only the original 32KB with the Apple logo.

Now reading some documentation: "Apple® II Plus / Ile Troubleshooting and Repair Guide".

In this forum I found old posts from 2014 from torindkflt and speedyG, with a problem similar to mine and I hope that speedyG's answers are helpful.

I tried to run the speedyG test by typing the command:"C050 C053 C054 C057 N 265: FF N 266 <265.BFFEM 266 <265.BFFEV 265: 0 N 266 <265.BFFEM 266 <265.BFFEV 34:14 "first with the 2 benches and then with a single bank (see photo)I haven't seen any writing at the bottom, but I don't understand if the image I see is correct.

In the clone, the same command gives me vertical, sharp lines.

Now I have removed all 4116 ICs (a 3 IC have a broken pin, while doing the job carefully...).

Now I put 8 IC 4116 (tested with "AppleCillin" and that worked on the clone), but now nothing works anymore. :(Only strange characters appear on the video without any acoustic signal.For the moment I don't want to touch anything anymore, until I get the 4116 ordered in China because, I don't want to widen the problem.
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Hi,the computer started with
Hi,the computer started with only the 16KB desk (one pin was not inserted well).the CAL -151 command always returns the address to me:E009-*I gave the speedyG command "C050 C053 C054 C057 N 265: FF N 266 <265.BFFEM 266 <265.BFFEV 265: 0 N 266 <265.BFFEM 266 <265.BFFEV 34:14 " but it is not the result I saw with the clone (see the video)
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BIT wrote:Hi,the computer
BIT wrote:

Hi,the computer started with only the 16KB desk (one pin was not inserted well).the CAL -151 command always returns the address to me:E009-*I gave the speedyG command "C050 C053 C054 C057 N 265: FF N 266 <265.BFFEM 266 <265.BFFEV 265: 0 N 266 <265.BFFEM 266 <265.BFFEV 34:14 "[[{"fid":"30967","view_mode":"default","fields":{"format":"default","alignment":""},"link

 

I have no idea what ROMs you are using there. It is hard-enough diagnosing this system without using ROMs out of some sort of clone machine.

 

You might try to email Brian at ReActiveMicro and ask if he can make a pin-compatible AppleSoft ROMset for you. Perhaps there are EPROMS or PROMS that he can use that won't need adapters. Otherwise, you should buy a full AppleSoft ROMset that is known to be good. TBH though, buying a full spare mainboard is probably the most cost-effective solution, given that it is likely only to be 50% more than the ROMs and it will give you a complete extra chipset Unless there is something very special about that board, it'd be less trouble, although if you have the Europlus model, that can be trickier  

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I have a doubt.This command:

I have a doubt.This command:"C050 C053 C054 C057 N 265: FF N 266 <265.BFFEM 266 <265.BFFEV 265: 0 N 266 <265.BFFEM 266 <265.BFFEV 34:14 (enter)"Is it okay with only one RAM bank installed? (FRE (0) = 14333)

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No. This command fills all of

No. This command fills all of RAM with FF's then verifies that it is correct; then does the same with all 00's. While not strictly necessary, it selects the HGR display so you can get a visual indication if there are gross memory errors.

As writtem it assumes 48K. To mofdify for 16K, change to C050 C053 C054 C057 N 265:FF N 266<265.3FFEM 266<265.3FFEV 265:0 N 266<265.3FFEM 266<265.3FFEV 34:14 (enter)

 

The screen should fill with all white (plus 4 rows of  "?" at the bottom). Then change to all black (with 4 rows of  "@" at the bottom). Any other output to the bottom of the screen would indicate verify errors.

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Hi J

Hi Jeffmazur,no problem with BASIC commands.Your command works well (see video).The first 16KB RAM replaced are OK :)Tomorrow I get the next 16KB (same chips: ET 4116N-2 / MS)can I ask you how to change the command for 32KB RAM?

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Change all of the original "B

Change all of the original "B"s to "7."

 

C050 C053 C054 C057 N 265:FF N 266<265.7FFEM 266<265.7FFEV 265:0 N 266<265.7FFEM 266<265.7FFEV 34:14 (enter)

 

BTW, don't know what the 34:14 at the end is for. You can omit that.

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BIT wrote:Hi Jeffmazur,no
BIT wrote:

Hi Jeffmazur,no problem with BASIC commands.Your command works well (see video).The first 16KB RAM replaced are OK :)Tomorrow I get the next 16KB (same chips: ET 4116N-2 / MS)can I ask you how to change the command for 32KB RAM?

 

 

Why don't I see the .mp4 video that I posted correctly?

 

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The new 16MB bank (32MB total

The new 16MB bank (32MB total) works fine (thanks jeffmazur for the command)

Now excuse my question, perhaps stupid.I understood that Apple Disk Server can create FDs starting from the image contained in the server, using the FDC in slot 6.My problem is that I have to test RAM, ROM and also FDC.Is there a way that allows me to load directly into RAM the only tool to perform these tests, through the CASSETTE IN jack, without having to create FDs first?

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BIT wrote:The new 16MB bank
BIT wrote:

The new 16MB bank (32MB total) works fine (thanks jeffmazur for the command)

Now excuse my question, perhaps stupid.I understood that Apple Disk Server can create FDs starting from the image contained in the server, using the FDC in slot 6.My problem is that I have to test RAM, ROM and also FDC.Is there a way that allows me to load directly into RAM the only tool to perform th

 

To create disks, you need to first hot-load ADT-PRO, as far as I am aware. You should be able to run anything that you steam, but making a boot disk, not as easy.  Otherwise, you can try to hotload DOS 3.3. I take it that your master disk still doesn't boot after getting 32K of RAM working?

You need 64K for ProDOS, so, 3.3 (or 3.4) is your best initial option. 

 

IDK what the freight would be, but I would sell you a set of master disks at my cost for the media, plus freight, if that is what you need. 

 

I have:DOS 3.3

DOS 3.4 (community-developed patch of 3.3)

DOS 3.3 Sample Programmes

DOS 3.3 Muffin Loader (for 13-sector disketes)

ProDOS (all versions)ProDOS Users' Disk

ProDOS Workbench Utilities (inspection)

GEOS v2.1 (4 diskettes, double-sided)

Apple II Desktop (all versions)

PASCAL Software Set (7 diskette sides)

 

... Pretty much all OS disks, and HW diskettes, beyond this list.

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Thank you for the Timelord

Thank you for the Timelord offer, you are very kind, but I would first like to understand why I cannot load a test utility, through CASSETTE IN.If I can create an FD image, can I also load a utility to check the ROMs, or not?

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