Fake Bell & Howell ?!

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Fake Bell & Howell ?!

Please look at this:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bell-Howell-Apple-II-Ships-Worldwide/193766606297?hash=item2d1d63c5d9:g:Kw4AAOSwB65fvmDk

 

To me, this looks fake. Looks as if someone painted a ][+ and put a B&H badge on it. Might be a real B&H beyboard, but from what I can tell the case looks like a rattle can paint job, the colour is wrong, the texture is wrong. Beyond that, there is no photo of the rear of the unit, nor a photo of the bottom serial sticker. 

 

Didn't B&H also have their own PSU stickers?

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you know what? Good eye.

you know what? Good eye. Someone sent me this link to my phone and the image was small. Now looking at it on the computer, Id say you are right! It must be a fake! Thats terrible. This guy should get banned from eBay for doing that.

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Verault wrote:you know what?
Verault wrote:

you know what? Good eye. Someone sent me this link to my phone and the image was small. Now looking at it on the computer, Id say you are right! It must be a fake! Thats terrible. This guy should get banned from eBay for doing that.

Looking at the label, it is possible that it is a real B&H KB and bottom, but the case looks like a rattle can. The badge is easy to obtain. The PSU serial and other parts looks mismatched. I might pay a bit for it, but not what he wants if it is an incomplete system. 

 

Real B&H are a uniform charcoal colour, and this is an obvious repaint. The KB is probably B&H, but very late as it lacks the two piece keycap for the power lamp. I do not know about the mainboard or PSU, but something is wrong and I could produce a better B&H replica than that. If he can produce a pedigree, I might buy it, but the broken keys do not seem to be right for genuine B&H. 

 

TBH, I am not sure what the auction item is. I do not desperately need a B&H, had one before, but if it was a real B&H at that price, I would instantly buy it, as I can fix it. Mind you that the photos show it as nonfunctional!!!

 

P.S. Banning is too severe. Most likely the poster does not know WTF he has, and it could be a hodgepodge of parts that include B&H parts. I do not auto-blame posters who have no clue what they are selling. Few have our level of experience and knowledge. 

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non functional because alot

non functional because alot of people dont have the time to test the 120 TTL chips on a II plus board, but I like fixing II plus'. Thats not important though.

Look at the case? See all the swirl marks and sanding done to it? They have just about removed all the texture to the mold! I have repaired and painted severely damaged Apple II cased from shipping or crush damage, but it looks like this guy was using 40 grit sandpaper on this thing! Here is an apple IIe that they were going to throw out but I said I could fix, I am pretty proud although I had no choice but to paint in the end:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/album.php?albumid=516

 

Some times you have to paint, but practice first, on a throw away beige mac case or something. I wouldnt be surprised if a paintbrush was used.

 

 

 

 

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Verault wrote:non functional
Verault wrote:

non functional because alot of people dont have the time to test the 120 TTL chips on a II plus board, but I like fixing II plus'. Thats not important though.

Look at the case? See all the swirl marks and sanding done to it? They have just about removed all the texture to the mold! I have repaired and painted severely damaged Apple II cased from shipping or crush damage, but it looks like

If painted, then it is terrible. I must admit that I have a lot of experience with that sort of thing, but this is uneven and awful. If it is real, I may buy it, sand it, and SEM it the correct shade of charcoal. 

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I dont think repainting it

I dont think repainting it will save it, like I mentioned seems they sanded off the texture of the plastic down to smooth swirlmarks. To be honest the paint jobs on B&H and Apple II and II Plus is a solid paint job, unless dragged behind a card (or in one case I had) something melted through the paint and plastic, you really never need to paint. I think its a fake.

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Verault wrote:I dont think
Verault wrote:

I dont think repainting it will save it, like I mentioned seems they sanded off the texture of the plastic down to smooth swirlmarks. To be honest the paint jobs on B&H and Apple II and II Plus is a solid paint job, unless dragged behind a card (or in one case I had) something melted through the paint and plastic, you really never need to paint. I think its a fake.

I will wait for more proofs. I could salvage that paint, but I have 30 years of expertise in restoring plastics. I can make anything look like NOS if I wanted, but I restored 1977-97 systems for years with *restored* in the tagline and people that received them asked me if the arrival was actually 'new', not restored, because I am a perfectionist with external cosmetics, and a perfectionist with internal electronics. 

 

The best feedback that I have received was along this line: `Sold as restored, but seemed to be new.`.  That is just how I roll. I will do w/e is needed to ensure mechanical or electrical solidity, and fully restore the outer visuals to like-new condition.

 

In this case, if it is a legit B&H, I would sand and strip it, then SEM charcoal it, and fix the KB. If I end up buying that system, I will post progression photos, so that anyone who wants a full restoration knows who can do it right. :shrug: 

 

I do not reveal my techniques beyond what I post to the forum, but I have restored a lot of 70s->90s systems to museum quality from shyte quality, so I feel that I know what to do here, too. ( I have also done custom jobs, and I  am still open to those, but on a very limited basis. ) 

 

Note: I learnt a lot of this restoring 1950s-.1970s Autotive interiour parts. 

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I'd love to see before/after

I'd love to see before/after photos of some of your restorations.

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A lot of people say that, Is

A lot of people say that, Is there anything in particular? I can send before/after photos of auto lenses off the cuff. I restored a lot of compiters, but I tended to keep photos od the result, not the initial product. (e.g.. I have a lot of after photos, but few before photos.)

 

It has never been my main line with computers to photograph b/a.  I am mostly retired and do things because people ask me to do it, based on word of mouth that I know what I am doing. If you have some terrible thing that you want me to restore for b/a photos, sure; but I would much rather get those Lisa docs to you. 

 

Working toward that. It was extemely irritating that the copier that one of my office mates brougt to me was an inkjet single sheet feed, when I know that the compan owned a flatbed laser copier. I have been looking for another flatbed laser copier for months. 

 

If you have something oddball that you want me to restore, given that you made some stuff for me, I am happy to do it with only materials cost and freight costs. I am a bit lax on some things (non-visible), such as the Videx kit that another forum member sent to me, because I want to secure wires with hot glue. If he objects, he can use a basic flame to strip that, but for non-visual stuff, I primarily factor product longevity. For old Vidces cables and softswitches, this means hot glue on the connections to prevent wires breaking. 

 

That said, I have a talent for making old plastic look like new. I received a bunch of Sharp An 500s a few years ago and not only did I restore the DD to factory spec, I made each one effectively, brand new. :shrug:

 

A lot of this expertise comes from making broken 1950s to 70s plastic in automotive lookx right for concours restorations. I work with a lot of plasbxic restoration compounds, and dyes (not normal paints that bind entirely to that plastic to treat it to the correct colour. 

 

If you have something specific in mind, LMK. I can post resto (after) photos of my work, but I am severely lacking on 'before' phpotos. One of my personal favourites was a 1983 Famicom, where I hand rebuilt the buttons on the controllers, along with a case restoration and an A/V upgrade. Those buttons were a nightmare, as they were made out of the same rubber material as old (early 80s) membrane KBs. and contemporary and more modern TV and VCR remote buttons. That said, I rebuilt them and it worked perfectly.

 

Now, 12 years later, I take projects on a per-case basis. I try not to charge more than what the work is worth;l often charging only my materials costs, and I am mostly retired., so I try to focus on things that benefit mutiple people, I am not concerned with profit, as I have enough to enjoy what time I have left, and rely on barter to get bits and bobs that I do not have; but when I do make money, I tend to re-invest it into the community. 

 

P.S. Bear in mind that I have been semi-officially retired since 2008.  I spend mosy of my free time now donating to open source or otherwise free projects, with a few exclusions, such as a custom chrss game and some books. 

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I didn't have anything

I didn't have anything particular in mind. I just thought it sounded interesting.

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Maybe it's the lighting, but

Maybe it's the lighting, but the color and texture looks more plausibly correct on the inside.

 

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Already sold on eBay

Hello,

This one was sold on eBay back in June for $260. The case was in bad shape, the new owner did a poor restoration/painting job.

Here are the original pictures of the auction.

 

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amauget wrote:Hello,This one
amauget wrote:

Hello,

This one was sold on eBay back in June for $260. The case was in bad shape, the new owner did a poor restoration/painting job.

Here are the original pictures of the auction.

 

[[{"fid":"31965","view_mode":"default","fields":{"format":"default","alignment":"","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":false,"field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":false},"

I would have been more inclined to buy it in that original state. I could have restored that. 

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Yes, the unit that started

Yes, the unit that started this thread is sanded and repainted with a rattle can.   Yes it could be fixed to look right.  

 

You need to sand it back and remove the texture, putty then prime it and then using the correct sprayer and matching paint, cover and re-splatter coat it.  Not that hard if you know what you are doing.  

 

I have done several "textured" systems, including Apple IIs, sol-20/Helios system and even the metal frame on the VCF PDP straight 8.   When I first got into this hobby years ago, I started using techniques from my car restoration hobby days on these machines and while I try not to do complete restorations whenever possible and only minor cosmetic touchup, there are cases where you buy a basket case with the intention of a complete restoration if the price is right or machine is rare enough.  

 

All the machines I have done complete restorations on were basket cases.  Some machines like my Rev-0 altair only required light wet sanding of the front panel and new clear, others needed the full restoration.    Do I ever not clean up a system to look new? sure.  My Ventless Apple II is not only unrestored, it is un repaired with a crack here and there.  But that machine is the exception.

 

Cheers,

Corey

 

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Corey986 wrote:Yes, the unit
Corey986 wrote:

Yes, the unit that started this thread is sanded and repainted with a rattle can.   Yes it could be fixed to look right.  

 

You need to sand it back and remove the texture, putty then prime it and then using the correct sprayer and matching paint, cover and re-splatter coat it.  Not that hard if you know what you are doing.  

 

Or, dump the ruined plastic, grab a ][+ case, properly dye it, put the badge on and be done. The baseplate and backplane are the core differences, and the plastic shell, that you would need to restore, would look better by SEM dying an unmodified ][+. I absolutely hate seeing people botch restorations on a system this uncommon. Standard rattle can paint should never be used on plastic, period, ever. 

 

Ventless Apple ][ ??? My origingal ][ has a serial of around 5,000 and uses the early plastic, but it has vents. What is this system that you have?

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I'd prefer to keep the

I'd prefer to keep the original case and simoply repair/refinish it.  The B&H I think pre-date the color dyed injection molded plastic cases with the texture part of the tooling used to make the case.  I should mention I don't personally own any later II+ based machines.  The Apple II and early to mid II+ were painted and the texture was done in the paint process.

 

Ventless Apple II are the earliest Apple II which have not had their "expanded" foam cases replaced under warranty.    

 

 

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Corey986 wrote:I'd prefer to
Corey986 wrote:

I'd prefer to keep the original case and simoply repair/refinish it.  The B&H I think pre-date the color dyed injection molded plastic cases with the texture part of the tooling used to make the case.  I should mention I don't personally own any later II+ based machines.  The Apple II and early to mid II+ were painted and the texture was done in the paint process.

I'd like to see a photo of the ventless system. 

 

The B&H case is the same plastic as most ][+ cases. Some very early units used the same 'heavy' plastic as the original ][ case, most used the later case material. This one in particular is a late model machine and would have used the same shell as the standard ][+, with different dye applied. 

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I think it's a big Bell and

I think it's a big Bell and Howell fake.  It is most definitely a repainted Apple II plus !!

 

look at mine to see the difference ...

 

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPx2P3HhIMfZ8PbiOpuA4D-cNlDBq9kO-KTDZKAohj67ns-PEG46moGhmPpBq2k5g?key=RXhmWDVpRzRoc3NWa2hYSy1QYjZJckI2MTZ2eFNB

 

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I am still inclined to agree.

I am still inclined to agree.

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Timelord wrote:I'd like to
Timelord wrote:

I'd like to see a photo of the ventless system.

 https://www.applefritter.com/content/ventless-rev-0-apple-ii

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dorkbert wrote:Timelord wrote
dorkbert wrote:
Timelord wrote:

I'd like to see a photo of the ventless system.

 https://www.applefritter.com/content/ventless-rev-0-apple-ii

Fascinating. First 1,500 units, then?

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P.S. Très chic!

P.S. Très chic!

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