A small 2c project I'm working on...

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A small 2c project I'm working on...

I didn't have a working mouse for my //c. That ended earlier this week.

A tweak of an earlier design I used for Atari ST using a WinChipHead (Nanjing Qinheng Microelectronics) CH series microcontroller. The perf board prototype works great and PCB's are on the way. Most any USB HID or wireless HID (with a USB receiver) mouse can act as a //c mouse, or as an input device for a ][ or //e buss mouse card.

 

If there is any interest let me know. I'm still undecided on how to make this available.

 

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Definately will be of

Definately will be of interest to a lot of people.  It should also work on some clones like the Laser 128.

 

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softwarejanitor wrote
softwarejanitor wrote:

Definately will be of interest to a lot of people.  It should also work on some clones like the Laser 128.

Laser 128 should not be an issue. I've used a 2c mouse on a 128. Macintosh will be a different issue. I know some  Mac models used different type of 9 pin mouse that doesn't share the same quadature output as the 2c. If anyone has anyinformation on the differences please let me know.

 

 

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Verify PB0/PB1 not affected

One issue I've seen with such adapters is getting the voltages wrong when the mouse button is clicked. The IIc's mouse port doubles as the joystick port, and the same pin is used for the mouse button as either PB0 or PB1 (I can't recall). If the voltage isn't correct (goes high instead of to ground or vice versa, can't recall) the effect is that the paddle button will read as depressed whenever the mouse button is pressed.  

This affects apps like A2Desktop where OpenApple and SolidApple serve as click modifiers. 

 

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InexorableTash wrote:One
InexorableTash wrote:

One issue I've seen with such adapters is getting the voltages wrong when the mouse button is clicked. The IIc's mouse port doubles as the joystick port, and the same pin is used for the mouse button as either PB0 or PB1 (I can't recall). If the voltage isn't correct (goes high instead of to ground or vice versa, can't recall) the effect is that the paddle button will read as depressed whenever

 

I have been running A2 Desktop. What *specifically* would you like me to try? Where is the click modifier (or lack thereof)  most obvious? I'm not normally an A2 desktop user. I do force Pin 1 low so the //c should disable most joystick/paddle functions.

 

 

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How much do you think these

How much do you think these are going to sell for?  I would be up to get a few.  I am assuming that U1 is a PIC processor or something similar?

 

 

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Also what is that SP ][ SD? 

Also what is that SP ][ SD?  Is that a UNISDISK derivative?  Is it an Open Source project that KiCAD and source files are available for?  Or something someone is selling?

 

 

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softwarejanitor wrote:How
softwarejanitor wrote:

How much do you think these are going to sell for?  I would be up to get a few.  I am assuming that U1 is a PIC processor or something similar?

U1 is a WCH 8051 Microcontroller.

As for cost? I don't really know yet. I was thinking in the $20-25 range.  It depends on how many 8051's I want to order to get the best price. I'm not having these assembled for me in China, I'm building these in my shop by hand with an SMD stencil and a reflow oven 25 boards per panel.

 

Full disclosure: I'm also looking at building the same item for Amiga and Atari ST. Those prototypes also work, and those boards are already here.

 

(Please forgive the SMD hand soldering.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Seems reasonable.  I'm

Seems reasonable.  I'm familiar with the old school 8051 and derivatives but haven't ever seen that version.  I guess it makse sense for very simple circuits like this, especially if it is a 5V part.

 

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softwarejanitor wrote:Also
softwarejanitor wrote:

Also what is that SP ][ SD?  Is that a UNISDISK derivative?  Is it an Open Source project that KiCAD and source files are available for?  Or something someone is selling?

It's an open source SmartportSD from Kay Koba of Kero's Mac Mods in Tokyo, Japan (based on the work of others who are credited).  It is Creative Commons 4.0 BY-NC-SA, meaning you can build your own and even modify the design, but you can not sell this board design for commercial use as a finished product.

 

https://github.com/kerokero5150/SP2SD_DIY_KIT

 

 

 

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If you've been testing with

If you've been testing with A2D then you're good. If OA or SA was down you'd notice the behavior - clicking would extend/toggle selection instead of replacing, double-click wouldn't work, parent folders would close, etc. 

Specifically, OA extends/toggles selection. SA does things like close the parent when opening a folder. 

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chrisa850 wrote
chrisa850 wrote:
softwarejanitor wrote:

Also what is that SP ][ SD?  Is that a UNISDISK derivative?  Is it an Open Source project that KiCAD and source files are available for?  Or something someone is selling?

It's an open source SmartportSD from Kay Koba of Kero's Mac Mods in Tokyo, Japan (based on the work of others who are credited).&nb

 

Thanks.  Interesting project.  I cloned the github repository to take a look at it.

 

Gerbers which is good, but no KiCAD project or even schematic which makes it a lot less itneresting.  I guess I would have to go back and look at the source projects.

 

I've been looking for something like this which doesn't rely on clock speed dependent Atmel assembler.  It wooult be super cool to build something like this using an ESP32 processor instead to take advantage of more CPU, memory and the WiFi capabilities, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'd definitely be interested

I'd definitely be interested in at least two or three if they come in at the price you mentioned.

 

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Looks sweet, I'd be

Looks sweet, I'd be interested.

 

Related unrelated question how do you double side reflow?  Or am I reading too much into that comment and you'll hand solder the DB9 and USB connectors, or maybe just the USB by hand? Curious as I've only reflowed single sided boards.

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jeff d wrote:Looks sweet, I'd
jeff d wrote:

Looks sweet, I'd be interested.

 

Related unrelated question how do you double side reflow?  Or am I reading too much into that comment and you'll hand solder the DB9 and USB connectors, or maybe just the USB by hand? Curious as I've only reflowed single sided boards.

 

I won't use double sided reflow for this simple project. If I did need to use multiple SMT components on each side of the board, I would use a higher temperature solder paste for the first operation, and a lower temperature paste (with a matching reflow profile) for the second operation. For this simple project the second operation will be by hand with an iron. In fact, if I need to only build one or two boards quickly, I will sometimes just use an iron or hot air hand piece for the first operation as well.

 

 

 

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chrisa850 wrote
chrisa850 wrote:
softwarejanitor wrote:

Definately will be of interest to a lot of people.  It should also work on some clones like the Laser 128.

Laser 128 should not be an issue. I've used a 2c mouse on a 128. Macintosh will be a different issue. I know some  Mac models used different type of 9 pin mouse that doesn't share the same quadature output as that doesn't share the same quadature output as the 2c. If anyone has anyinformation on the differences please let me know.

 

My understanding is that the two different versions/internals on the mouse will work fine on both a II mouse card or a Mac with no modifications.  In fact I'm almost positive I've seen M0100's using both of the different internals, which implies the Mac can handle both fine.  The //c is the oddball due to the fact it shares the port with the joystick, and only works with one of the two versions.  The article below talks a little abour about the issue and how to build an adapter for the IIc to use the versions that don't normally work right with it.

 

https://www.raphnet.net/electronique/apple_iic_mouse_fixer/index_en.php

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nick3092 wrote:chrisa850
nick3092 wrote:
chrisa850 wrote:
softwarejanitor wrote:

Definately will be of interest to a lot of people.  It should also work on some clones like the Laser 128.

Laser 128 should not be an issue. I've used a 2c mouse on a 128. Macintosh will be a different issue. I know some  Mac models used different type of 9 pin mouse that

 

 

What you are saying basically aligns with what I remember...  The Macs with 9 pin mouse port and the //e Mouse Interface Card can use any of the Apple DE9 mice but only the later ones will work with a //c because Apple made a small design change to allow it to work with the //c's shared Mouse/Joystick port.

.

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softwarejanitor wrote
softwarejanitor wrote:
nick3092 wrote:
chrisa850 wrote:
softwarejanitor wrote:

Definately will be of interest to a lot of people.  It should also work on some clones like the Laser 128.

Laser 128 should not be an issue. 

 

I agree. I sold lots of Lasers and never had a problem with any 9 pin mouse in a Laser 128 or //e with a mouse card, but newer //c could finicky. 

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8BitHeaven wrote
8BitHeaven wrote:
softwarejanitor wrote:
nick3092 wrote:
chrisa850 wrote:
softwarejanitor wrote:

Definately will be of interest to a lot of people.  It should also work on some clones like the Laser 128.

Laser 128 should not be an issue. 

 

I also sold Laser 128s back in the day.  I used several of them before I sold them...  128, 128EX and 128EX/2.  I also had the sidecar expansion box and a couple of the Central Point/VTech/Laser Universal Disk Controller cards and ther Chinon based 800k 3.5" drives.

 

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I built a small pilot run for

I built a small pilot run for testing, and have a few extra available. I will be posting details in the For Sale and Trade area.

 

So far, I have tested these on an Apple bus mouse card, //c, and //c+. The converter will support wired mice, or USB wireless mouse receivers. This is for quadrature mouse input functions only. It will *not* convert USB game devices to analog Apple compatible joysticks. It's for mice.

 

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