Trying to identify my Apple II+ keyboard

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jrsphoto's picture
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Trying to identify my Apple II+ keyboard

I'm in the process of collecting parts to assemble my Apple 1 NTI PCB and I started to think about a keyboard.   I remembered I had an old Apple II+ keyboard in storage so I pulled it out to look at it.   I didn't have my phone handy while typing this but I found an image on google.    The lower keyboard in this image is the keyboard I have.  The encoder chip on mine is labled: TK-10 5732.  To me this looks like an aftermarket keyboard, maybe from a clone, mainly do the removable cover on the caps-lock key, but I'm no expert. I've dome some searching on apple II /II+ /IIe keyboard and I found no info on this keyboard.  Even the TK-10 chip I was unable to find info on.

 

Perhaps someone can clarify what keyboard this is and if this will work for the Apple 1 with the appropriate adapter pcb (I've seen several here)

 

Thanks

 

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A German ebay seller

has an Apple II for sale right now with a keyboard that looks identical.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304434978333

I don't know more than that.

 

Picture from the ebay listing:

 

 

There is also this one from germany which looks like a clone:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334450198111

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Those are all clone keyboards

Those are all clone keyboards.  They were sold in clones but also as replacements for broken ][/][+ keyboards and also just as an upgrade because they can do lower case.

 

I think with the right cabling you can probably use one on an Apple 1, but I'm not 100% sure what needs to be done.  I'd have to look up the pinouts at least, but I bet someone will come along that can tell you right off the top of their heads.

 

 

 

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Use of Apple II keyboards for Apple-1

In post #3, softwarejanitor wrote:

 

"I think with the right cabling you can probably use one on an Apple 1, but I'm not 100% sure what needs to be done.  I'd have to look up the pinouts at least, but I bet someone will come along that can tell you right off the top of their heads."

 

Uncle Bernie answers:

 

Any keyboard which works with the DIL-16 keyboard connector of any Apple II can be converted to work with the Apple-1, all you need is to make a custom cable which permutes a few wires. No added electronics needed. With 2 trace cuts and 2 wires added on the typical keyboard encoder card used by Apple, you can re-route the  REPEAT key to work as a CLR SCREEN key. The RESET key is present on most keyboards anyways. The Mike Willegal's website there is a pdf on how to do these conversions and I have started a thread on making long keyboard cables for the Apple-1 (there is a pitfall to be avoided), see here:

 

https://www.applefritter.com/content/how-make-excessively-long-apple-1-keyboard-cables

 

If there is enough interest I'll post some more information there on how to make these cables. Mike Willegal's pdf is OK but does not address the length problem nor a few of the mechanical obstacles you may run into.

 

You can't use an Apple IIe keyboard with the Apple-1, though. The Apple IIe keyboard has no keyboard encoder card and is "dumb", just a switch matrix. The keyboard encoder in the Apple IIe was moved to the motherboard. This is a pity because now, to use an Apple IIe keyboard with the Apple-1, you would need to build your own keyboard encoder card. Millions of the IIe were made so they would be a better and more abundant source for Apple-1 keyboards. Back in the day, with the original Apple-1, the owner had to procure their own keyboard, so there are many different ones, but the Datanetics keyboard was the most popular ... they were sold off at cheap prices, I remember some ads in BYTE magazine offering them well into 1977 or maybe even 1978. 

 

- Uncle Bernie

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Hi jrsphoto!

You can use this keyboard for the Apple-1, the adapter can easily be assembled according to this schematic from a small breadboard and a pair of ic sockets 16-pin. If you can, I would advise you not to rework/cut anything on your wonderful vintage keyboard, just put the CLearScreen button on the breadboard according to the schematic. That way you can return that keyboard to your Apple II at any time. 

And good luck with the build!

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