I picked up my Radeon PCI 9200 this past week at TekServe in New York. Boy am I p'd off! I have a G3 Beige MiniTower 333MHz that is pretty much stock, except for a maxed out ram upgrade and a new CD burner.
The box says it works "with all G3, G4 and G5 Macs, running either OS 9.2.2, 10.2.8 or 10.3.3 and later." I use this G3 as my OS9 forever machine, I run OSX on a G4 Digital Audio(DA), which is specifically not suported by this card. Or rather I should say this card is specifically not supported running OS 9 on a G4 DA, but why would I use a PCI card in a G4 anyway??
1st off, the manual included with the card is one for a 9800PRO AGP! Absolutely useless for the 9200. You have to go to the web site and download the *Real* 9200 PCI manual to find out that the system requirements stated there only include OS X!
I spent 4 nights trying to get the computer to just boot up using the 9200. The OS9 drivers included on the disk lock the machine up. The desktop is visible, but no mouse functionality. I finally got the thing to work with the October 2002 retail update from the ATI website. (ROM 210) But none of the features of the card (VersaVision, MAC2TV, etc.) will show up with these drivers. (ATI Control Panel doesn't identify the card properly either, no real news flash there) I ended up re-formatting my hard drive, and re-installing the OS a total of 4 times during this phase of the process.
At this point, finally getting a functional mouse, I tried to start installing my apps, but ATI monitor will not stop to allow the installers to function, so I can't even install applications. So for now I am stuck with a $140 card that does NOT perform. This card DOES NOT SEEM TO WORK IN OS 9.2.2.
It's really easy to see from the packaging that ATI had a hard time getting this thing to market. (I guess the proper term is RUSHING it to market) On the shrinkwrap, there is a total of three stickers (One on top of the other) giving me three seperate Tech ID numbers. There are also three part number labels (All specific to the MAC Radeon 9200 PCI) the only difference in these three stacked part number labels is the rev version of the card. The bottom label says this is a "REV 1.0" card, the next label states this to be a "Rev 2.0" card. The final (and top) label says this is a "Rev A" card.
I really get the impression that ATI doesn't know what the heck this card is. I am debating whether to call ATI or not, (Using up my *free* support period. Only 30 days, looks like it's going to be a lot longer than 30 days to get this mound working) or just getting rid of the card on eBay, and let someone else deal with YET ANOTHER piece of vaporware.
After all the months of waiting. After all the false starts, they still hoist this piece of s*it to market, obviously knowing full well it is still half baked.
Save your sanity, look elsewhere for a decent PCI graphics cards for OS 9.2.2, this one ain't there yet.
see my post:
I don't know what happened with your install, but on a Quicksilver it worked great under 9.2.2 for me. Maybe the problem isn't 9.2 but compatability with Gossamer-based systems? Or perhaps an extension conflict?
It did work fine under 10.3.5 on an 8600/G4, if that info's any use. I will be testing with the same box under 9.2.2, I'll post if any problems crop up.
BTW, you asked 'why a 9200 PCI on an AGP based system?' Multiple displays of course. In fact, that's gotta be the major reason ATI bothered to develop this card in the first place. Anyone wanting more than 2 screens (and that with a dual-head AGP card!) needs a PCI card.
Thanks for that. I have seen where Quicksilvers are OK w/9.2.2 on other boards. Not sure that it is an extension problem, as I reformatted the hard drive, the only thing on it was a fresh install of the OS. The card was tested in all three slots. When I was futzing around with the other driver packages, I re-formatted and re-installed the OS each time to insure that I was not leaving anything in the mix that shouldn't be there.
So, your control panel is active, and you have functionality with PCI enhancement and all that? Did yours come with a 9800 manual and a bunch of labels as well??
I have 17 years of MAC use under my belt at this point, so I'm pretty certain that my procedures are correct.
Possibly I have a bum card, or it may not function with Gossamer boards. I will call ATI at this point and try to get this worked out.
As my main testing interest was OpenGL performance (primarily for gaming), the only test I ran (and had time for) was a Q3A timedemo to get a handle on it's overall speed potential. I didn't check any of the other functions, didn't even notice it had 'em!
Customer's QS is used as an FCP edit station, all they required was that it drive a second DVI LCD display. Which it does nicely, feels just as snappy under 10.3.x as does the original GF4 AGP card.
Yeah, it came with what IIRC was instructions for installing a 9800(?), but since I can't say I read instructions much anyhow that didn't faze me at all.
Labels? Dunno, do you mean on the box or on the card itself? I have board scans linked on this page if that's any use:
Here's a thought - Did you remove all the original display extensions installed by the OS installer before running the ATI installer that came with the card? In my experience, old drivers can be left in place that can cause such problems. Also, if I can, I remove all drivers for other chipsets, eg: NVidia. Before declaring the card NG, I'd strip the System Folder of anything with ATI, Radeon, NVidia, etc. in its name and re-install the new drivers.
BTW, did you try the R9200 in your G4 system? It would be nice to know if it works in a G4 DA under 9, supported or not.
Yes, one of the iterations I performed was stripping all the ATI extensions out, before installing the drivers from the disk. I will try out your suggestion and strip out the nVidias as well.
The labels were all attached to the shrink-wrapped manual.
Try it out in my G4? I have a full-time job already, thank you! My frustration is that I have already spent 4 and a half days, solid free time trying to work this issue out. I will eventually get around to the G4 when the Beige is sorted out.
Saw your scans already, looks like mine. With the exception of the blue marks on the capacitors.
Thanks for your suggestions. I'll keep posting what I find.
My 9200 was just delivered today, after having been on backorder from CDW since July. I too was planning on putting it in a 9.2.1 beige G3 tower; maybe I'll make other plans for it now, at least until I get around to upgrading the unit to Jaguar.
Thanks for the heads-up.
ATI released a retail update today for the Radeon range. The info file talks directly about fixing a problem in G3 (and earlier) systems where advanced features are not being saved to NVRAM.
The update is for OSX only.
I have not seen anybody else with this problem before.
How you got the card to work with a driver that was made 10 months before the card was released is beyond me. The drivers should be working fine. I am thinking your card itself may be bad. Reinstalling the OS 4 times is WAY overboard. OS9 is a very simple OS, and should never require a reformat to install something. Since the only thing that changes in the OS is prefs, and different extensions/control that you load. What driver version was on the CD that came with the card?
And calling the card a piece of s*&t because yours may be bad is a bit excessive. There are hundreds of others who have the card work flawlessly.
EDIT: oh yeah... now that I look at my manual here... Its a single manual for ALL ATI cards currently sold, it does have a special section for the 9800. But its a getting started guide.
Maybe you ought to check out :
Virtually all who have commented have had problems on various machines (G3's and G4's) with display artifacts using the DVI connector in OSX. There are several other posts around from other G3 Beige owners that have experienced the same lock-up problems that I have under OS9. The fact that this card chokes on a supported machine right out of the box deservedly gives it the monikor "Piece of S*it" in my book. ATI is more concerned with making it's year-end sales projections than shipping viable product.
"I have not seen anybody else with this problem before . . . the drivers should be working fine"
This card has only been out a week, you really sound like you work for ATI.
I re-install the OS so that when I call your technical support line I can immediately respond to the stock response of "It must be a third party extension problem." So, at that point it can't be deemed "excessive" if it succeeds in cutting through the BS, and getting to the root of the matter.
So, when is the OS9 fix going to be posted?
Hah... I dont work for ATI, would be a col job though. I have read the reports on xlr8, I am also a member of the forums there. The graphical glitch is nothing like what you are describing. The cards work fine most of the time with the colored line that shows up from time to time. I say the card is most likely bad. As the machine should bot with NO drivers installed at all, it will just be a bare video mode, low colors, low resolution, no accelleration. I am sure you put it in the 1st PCI slot, and not in the 2nd or 3rd with say, a scsi card in the first slot. As of course that would most likel raise some issues. But if you think its a defective product, just return it to where you bought it.
I have a 9200 and it works fine in my gossamer system. Mine is far from stock (two PCI video cards, USB/FireWire card, some no-name DVD-ROM) and everything installed flawlessly. However, I haven't tried re-installing OS 9 with the card in. But I haven't needed to since I don't have any system instability.
hey losmeme and a2daj, what version ROMs y'all gots?
I have a very late model G3 with the last ROM revision for the "B" MoBo, and I also have the Rage Turbo Pro imbedded chip, which is somewhat uncommon as they were introduced very late in the production cycle.
I called ATI twice last night, and was cut off from two seperate Senior Technical Support people. I was not rude, I didn't push too hard. They both asked me to hold, while they supposedly checked on "something", and both times I was cut off. An hour of long distance charges got me no where.
I have a Rev A motherboard with a Rev B ROM. It also has a 533 MHz G4 upgrade in it.
Do you also run OSX on your G3? Or is it strictly an OS9 native machine? If OS9 native, that would seem to indicate that the driver installation problems are a result of the CPU, as you have the upgraded G4. Everyone I have seen posts from or spoken with about this issue has the same problem I have been encountering, running OS9 natively on a G3. Let's hope ATI is quick to mark with updated OS9 native drivers.
rom update for os9 and osx, you may want to give it a try.
These updates, according to ATI, are for other issues. I sent them an Apple System Profiler Report, and they have been "investigating the issue" now for three weeks.
Waiting patiently . . .
ATI called me today after a month and a half trying to get tech support for this product. I have 2 stock Beige G3 MT's, and have tried the card out in both:
768MB OWC RAM
Rage Turbo Pro Imbedded video/6MB Video RAM
No Other PCI cards installed.
9GB Quantum IDE/Onboard controller
Rage Imbedded video/6MB Video RAM
NO PCI cards installed
ATI's answer in a nutshell: "Sorry, it doesn't work, we can't figure out why, and because OS9 is a legacy OS, no more updates will be forthcoming, you're out of luck. We have nothing to offer you in exchange." How very lame.
This person actually had the gall to suggest that it works on a beige G3 running Panther. I informed him that Panther wasn't spec'd for a Beige G3, but gee, his card is. Panther works (with minor tweaking) why doesn't the 9200 work?
When it doesn't work in stock systems, ATI clearly has not done its job. We pay three times the price for the same technology, and get 1/3 the support.
Since it has been a month and a half, the retail store won't refund nor exchange this product. I am stuck with a useless $140 video card.
Stay as far away from the ATI 9200ME as you can. In fact, you're probably better off going with a flashed PC product, as ATI has clearly shown it is not there to offer support when they ship vaporware. I have since purchased a flashed Sapphire 7000 off eBay. Works flawlessly.