Non-standard DOS archive project

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Non-standard DOS archive project

Hi all

OK, this is my first post here and I have searched for an answer but here goes.

I have an Apple II system that controls a piece of machinery. I want to replace the Apple II with a PC, but I want to archive the Apple data, chuck the floppies away and retire the Apple.

The program and its data disks are not standard DOS. I think this was done to make more space on the floppies.
Is there a way to determine how its set up and make images from there?

Is there a way I can start the program disk, stop it and examine some memory contents to determine how the data is stored and use this info to transfer the data to PC? I am not really interested in using the data for anything, but I want it to be there and available in the future,

I basically want to make sure that I have done all I can to preserve the data but if I could:

re-write back to Apple disks
and use in an emulator

as well that would be a bonus.

Any ideas, help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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Dropkick, It sounds like w

Dropkick,

It sounds like what you are looking for is something like ADP Pro, where you can transfer your files between computer types. You can also check out Ciderpress.

http://adtpro.sourceforge.net/

Have you considered continuing the use of your Apple II but changing your disk system from floppy to either hard drive or CFFA Card?

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Thanks for your reply, sadly

Thanks for your reply, sadly the Apple bit must go.

I have tried ADT Pro, that’s how I know that these aren’t standard DOS disks.
Ciderpress is also on the list to try, but as its not standard DOS I have a feeling it won’t work either.

I tried disk2fdi last night with mixed results, the program disk read as all tracks faulty sectors, the data disk had bad sectors on tracks 0 , 1 and 21.
This is why I am thinking is there a way I could examine the program in memory to see what it is changing. Sort of like a PEEK command. If anyone can tell me which locations would be good to try that would be good too.

Are there any software tools around that examine the disk and tell me how many tracks and sectors there are?

I really am just throwing ideas around at the moment, so any input is gratefully received.

Thanks again.

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Non-Standard DOS...

Dropkick,

Are you running DOS 3.3 for your system, or ProDos? I can check for a PEEK or POKE if I know what you're running.

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Thanks a lot, it really is ap

Thanks a lot, it really is appreciated.
Its a modified version of 3.3.
Just had a look at my notes from last night and there were only 2 bad sectors on track zero, so would imagine that this would have some clues as without at least something resembling an officail DOS, the machine would reject it.

Still don't know how to examine the memory when the program is running? How do I start this monitor thing when a program is running?

Thanks again

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Use a copying utility . . . .

There are several things that you should try.

First, perform a head cleaning job on the disk drive. Then calibrate the speed. Sometimes errors occur from these two potential causes for faults.

I suggest that you try to transfer the programs and files to a known working disk, then try your file transfer to a PC. You can get a copy of Copy][+ (v9 was pretty decent/modernish for Apple II's). Using a disk that you know is in good shape, copy the DOS using Copy][+, then all of the files. Give that a try. If that doesn't work, take a chance that the modifications to the DOS aren't critical and initialize a blank disk with DOS 3.3 (from an Apple System Master Disk, for example), then copy all of the files. Remember that what ever name that you initialize the disk with will be the first program that the computer will try to run. So if you use the command INIT HELLO, (after having booted a DOS 3.3 disk), then copy your bootstrap/start up program and name it HELLO, it will automatically run when the computer is started/rebooted.

Good luck.

BTW you can pay back us Apple ][ geeks for this advice by telling us what piece of machinery is still being controlled by an Apple ][. We love those tales.

Mutant_Pie

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Non-Standard DOS

Dropkick,

Well, I'll be the first to admit it when I'm at a loss, although I must admit that I'm more of a hardware guy than a software guy. lol

I went checking through my Applesoft and Integer Basic libraries and could not come up with a PEEK, POKE, or CALL that could possibly help you. Except for a Utilities Compare command under the Apple IIe Utilities disk. I like the Copy II Plus Version 9 idea though.

There used to be a program for transfering files from Apple II to PC machines, it came with it's own cable for hookup between the two. I can't remember the name. Maybe you could use something like that to help?

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Thanks for your interest.

Thanks for your interest.

Tried copying the disks, was the first thing I did, after all no point in archiving if the data and transfer process is rubbish and best not to rubbish the data that is to be archived!

I can assure you that regular DOS 3.3 won't work, its been modified.
This would tally up with the results from using disk2fdi.
Didn't mention that the program disk works fine in the Apple, its not a hardware problem, its to do with the modified DOS.

Please will someone correct me if I'm not thinking this through correctly or am just plain wrong, but Track 0 holds the DOS image, this will tell the computer how many sectors and tracks it has to play with, if it has "different" (some more or some less) tracks/sectors, disk2fdi as its expecting 16 tracks will complain. Which it did, 2 bad sectors in track 0. It then went on to complain that all the other tracks were bad too. It would do if it was expecting standard DOS 3.3.

I will check what I recovered in ciderpress as soon as I can against a regular DOS disk, but not thinking properly last night, I saved all the Apple stuff onto a PC floppy and this PC has no floppy drive. Doh!

Can anyone tell me about track 0 or point me to some documents?

Please fell free to chip in ideas or comments etc, it is greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

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beyond Apple DOS

Beneath Apple DOS

Track 0 holds the boot sector(s). Usually, there is only one boot sector. The disk controller has some code to move the disk arm to track 0 -- this is the rattling sound you hear when the disk boot starts. Then 256 bytes of code are loaded into memory at $0800 and run. What these 256 bytes of code do is anyone's guess. But, you can read this boot sector of code from track 0 and disassemble the code and analyse what the code does from there...

You say that the disk is not DOS 3.3. I was confused at first as to whether by "DOS" you meant MS-DOS/PC-DOS or Apple DOS 3.3. I am intrigued by the PC Tool you mentioned that can read Apple DOS 3.3 formatted disks.

There are many other DOSes on Apple II systems: ProDOS; the USCD Pascal language had it's own disk format; there are "modified" DOSes like RDOS, Diversi DOS and others; and even the notion of a Disk Operating System can be a very loose term depending on the disk. Many protected disks do not have a "DOS" they simply read and possibly write data in very raw, low level ways, and may some do "tricks" like using half and even quarter tracks, and reading the raw data in spirals from the disk, using the 36th track, ...

Anyways, maybe your disk is ProDOS. Boot up a ProDOS disk, and see if you can use your disk from ProDOS.

Maybe as you say this a modifed DOS 3.3 disk with just the Prologue and Epilogue bytes modified. For DOS 3.3, the remaining sectors of a second boot loader are stored on track 0. DOS 3.3 (or possibly a modified version of it) is usually stored on tracks 1 to 2.

There are tools to analyze disk data. With the Apple II, you can read an entire track into memory raw, and analyze the raw stream of nybbles.

With an Apple II (not a plus), or an Apple II with a modified ROM, when you hit reset you are dropped into the monitor. From there you may be able to see what is going on. For instance, I've broken out of Castle Wolfenstein to see that it used a modified version of Apple DOS 3.1.

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