Hi vintage computerers!!
Is there a list of poke/peek/call commands, or do you make your own?
(only a couple a listed in the manual)
this is the complete list? (in the manual)
-- it seems I've seen other programs that had numbers that were not listed in the manual!
Somebody point this guy to the beagle bros. charts!
@Keatah, yep your call has been heard...
Hello Captain Kirk,
up till to Apple IIGS the most common guys in "poke and peeking business" have been the Beagle Bros.
the made plenty Software related to the wotk with that tricks....
so your first visit should be at :
http://beagle.applearchives.com/
there you should select Posters... it would bring you up here:
http://beagle.applearchives.com/the_posters/
you should try to download the hires-versions of that posters, by clicking in the poster,
getting the pdf version displayed and saving the pdf-version to harddisk...
most of them contain peeks and pokes or other valuable informations.....
the upmost one, you are searching for is this one:
http://beagle.applearchives.com/Posters/Poster%202.pdf
or
http://beagle.applearchives.com/Posters/Poster%203.pdf
hint: most posters have been released at size of:
17 inch x 12 inch ( little larger than double size of legal letter )
and most users covered their posters with self adhesive plstic foil after they had
fixed the poster to plywood before with sprayglue and then hang ém up close to the computer....
next step might be to visit asimov at the related directories containing the most manuals in pdf-format:
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/applications/beagle_brothers/
then its recommended to visit this pages to find out all of the software:
http://beagle.applearchives.com/the_software/vintage_beagle_bros_softwar/
http://beagle.applearchives.com/the_software/the_timeout_series/
http://beagle.applearchives.com/the_software/other_packages/
but in that pages most packages are zip-fotmat and first must become unzipped.....
otherwise you might turn back to:
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/
and search in the various subdirectories for the softwaredisks in DSK or PO format,
which can be transferred direct by ADTpro to yout disks....
all of the software is within asimov... but it´s spread along all over the directories
depending to the topic of use of the software.... so happy hunting and downloading....
sincerely speedyG
Captain Kirk,
I have just got to tell you. lol
When you came up here you hit one of the main "Mother Loads" for information sharing on the Web for the Apple II.
Dogcow (David) will dispute that, lol, but he will probably place his site here to for you to see.
There are many extremely knowledgable folks up here.
But this is not the only place:
http://www.a2central.com/
http://iceandfire1.tripod.com/apple1site/index.html
http://apple2history.org/
http://www.willegal.net/appleii/appleii-first_page.htm
These are just several of the sites that will lead you to othersites that will lead you to the land of Woz.
Go to every site listed here, then go to a2Central and see thier listings of sites and then start again.
Over the years I have collected URLs for a majority of the Apple II sites.
You will never want for information.
Steven (gsmcten)
Keatah,
nice to meet ya.
Apple IIe.
speedyG,
welcome! Thanks for the reply.
My gosh man, there are a few links here that I've never seen before!
How did you find these?
This is wonderful!!!
Steven (gsmcten),
good to make your acquaintance Apple IIe.
Well, as far as the "motherload", you weren't joking.
Not in the least.
I will be lost for days in this search.
This is a very high mountain to climb.
But I am ready...
EVERYONE,
Can you believe this?
A mountain of links has been poured on me!!!
Okay guys, this is really, a lot and lot, and a lot of links here.
So it may take hours to find all of this information before I can get back to you.
But hey, after all this information I may not even NEED to get back to you on this one.
Anyways, I just want thank you all for your help.
I'm sure I'll become a much better programmer after this!!!
Thank you everybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Captain Kirk
I miss rubywand. This is from rubywand...
Apple II Programming - 004- Where can I find PEEKs & POKEs and monitor routine info? (archive.org)
html-
http://home.swbell.net/rubywand/csa2pfaq.html#004text- ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/apple2/programmerfaq/
mmphosis,
Its good to make your acquaintance.
Thanks for the links!!
This is great -- more links.
I can always use more links.
Now its just a matter of looking at them all!!!
For the Call command, for example, how do you enter this into the program?
10 $F3F2 -3086
20 end
or
(10 call $F3F2 -3086)
or
call -3086
When you run the program it clears the HI-RES screen to Black?
I don't know how to enter the hexidecimal address, but I don't think that I want to get that far involved into the programming part of this language.
The assembly language is much too far involved that I want to get.
I'll just stick to the BASIC computer language end of things!
Captain Kirk
Hello Captein Kirk,
i´m sorry, but you should not avoid reading some stuff, otherwise you will end up in a bunch of syntax errors....
you should at least be familiar with the Applesoft reference manual...:
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/programming/basic/Applesoft%20BASIC%20Programming%20Reference%20Manual%20-%20Apple%20Computer.pdf
and then you could sdownload the "Big Tip Book" from the Beagle Bros. :
http://beagle.applearchives.com/books/
unzip it and view the contents section to find the chapters related to the topic....
the big advantage : in that book there are a lot of ready to use examples - just ready to type them in !
we´re not that far with our technology to beam on part of one´s brain to the brain of somebody else....
"beam me up - Scotty" and then "transfer the contents of that part of his brain into mine - Mr. Spock"!
won´t work in this part of the century....
sincerely yours speedyG
from the FAQ:
[code][u]Hexa[/u]. [u]Deci[/u]. [u]Description[/u][/code]
[code]$F3F2 -3086 Clear HI-RES screen to Black[/code]
The Hexadecimal number is there for reference and machine language programs.
For BASIC, you need only the decimal number in the CALL statement:
[code]CALL -3086[/code]
or, in a program:
[code]10 CALL -3086[/code]
speedyG,
Hello there!
5 speedyG=1
10 ?"Thanks for the tips link.": replies=1
20 if speedyG=1 then goto 30
25 end
30 REM I can always use more tips!
40 replies=replies+1
50 home:?replies
70 end
so when you "run":
this is what you get --
A reply from speedyG.
"Beam me up scotty" some more commands.
Now I'm off to look at the next link.
This may take several days to read it all...
mmphosis,
Thanks for the reply.
I like your picture -- that's cool.
Where the heck did you find that -- that's great!!
(I laughed)
Wow cool, now I have a ton of EXTRA commands that I can do!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is awesome!!!
What a pal!
Captain Kirk
I think I drew that, or at least colored it in, a long long time ago on the Apple II. The original image is from page 6-1 of the book Beneath Apple DOS by Don Worth and Pieter Lechner.
mmphosis,
Hi!
Cool! That's awesome! I really like it!!! (the picture that caused me to laugh when I saw it).
Correct me if I'm wrong:
CALL DEFINITION (the "definition" of the call command)
"This is a command that is able to function within a program."
In a single sentence like the one above, which is the summary of its use and meaning, what is the "definition" of PEEK?
Captain Kirk
[quote=Captain Kirk]what is the "definition" of PEEK?[/quote]
from the [url=http://www.landsnail.com/a2ref.htm]Apple II Programmer's Reference: Applesoft Commands[/url] (landsnail.com) ...
to make it very clear:
PEEK means READ from Adress a value
POKE means WRITE a value x to a memoryadress
in most cases the adress is represented by decimal-value
CALL means jump with Monitor to defined adress and execute following commands till you get
RETURN-command
or STOP-command
or JMP-command to the "turn back to Basic" adress
or the "switch to DOS" adress.....
in most of this cases the adress is represented by "complimentary" decimal-value
sincerely speedyG
mmphosis,
Hello there!
Yes, that true, it is a single sentence I suppose.
Though I didn't even understand it the FIRST time that I read it in the manual years back!! :~
The way that commands are stated in this book is sometimes confusing by the manner by which they are presented.
And better way to show it?
Give an example, such as:
PRINT COMMAND
10 A$="mmphosis"
20 ?A$", this is an example"
When the manual states commands in this fashion -- it is just jargon.
Jargon that you don't understand.
However, put in laymen's terms, it is more understandable.
speedyG,
Thanks for the reply bro!!!
Speaking of saying things in laymen's terms, I thought that it was nice that you defined it a bit.
When I saw the manual reference again to these commands, I blanched.
Too confusing.
But thanks to you -- I've sorted these commands out, as to what they, in general, do.
Call: This only changes the graphics instruments that can run within a program.
Peek: Look at a memory value. For purposes of checking how much memory a program is using.
Poke: Increase/Decrease the memory available to a program for use.
speedyG
Thank You!
What a pal
(By the way, I really like those "poster" summary command guides): beagle bros.
(This is great.)
"And here to save the day"
Oh wait -- was that from a superhero flick?
[Speedy Gonzalas was a superhero wasn't he?]
(Hey, a mouse can be a superhero too)
P.S. did I get it right?
Captain Kirk
Hello Captain Kirk,
in general you are correct...
first: speedyG is of course the "nickname" from Speedy Gonzales - the fastest mouse in Mexico...
he was one of my favorite cartoons in youth together with the roadrunner... - the poor guy who always turned back the dynamite to the cat Sylvester who got always blasted by his own dynamite....
but to add some more expanded view to "your view" at the commands above....
the things you listed above are only EXAMPLES again.....
you can do far more with that commands....
if for example you have written in assembler
( then of course you should first become familiar with Merlin or "sweet 16".... )
and have loaded that program - or even several programs - to memory...
you could add a BASIC program by loading it afterwards...
and from that BASIC program you could switch forward to the assembler program and
-> back to your program in BASIC....
from BASIC it´s possible to get for example the results from the assembled program that you kicked from BASIC using the CALL-command...
very general example of such a kind of program in Overview:
contents:
BASIC program for Plotter with menu for commands to:
view hirespage
draw to hirespage
draw at plotter
save drawing to disk
load drawing from disk
group of machine programs assemled and loaded together at beginning of the BASIC program to memory
and to be called from BASIC program:
Group of assemmbled programs to be called from BASIC like subroutines to command the plotter:
machine program for interface that drives the plotter by giving move x-axis move command to interfacecard
machine program for interface that drives the plotter by giving move y-axis move command to interfacecard
machine program for interface that drives the plotter by giving lift or drop to pen command to interfacecard
Group of assembled programs to be called from BASIC like subroutines to command the drawing at the hirespage:
Machine program drawing lines in hirespage 1
by giving draw x-axis linecommand to hires page
by giving draw y-axis linecommand to hires page
by giving command to add or remove line to hirespage
Group of assembled programs to be called from BASIC like subroutines to command the load and save to disk in DOS
having a routine that converts file with byte-strings to bitmap for hires-picture
having a routine that converts bitmap from hirespicture back to byte-strings for file
read a file to hires
save a file from hires
End of the programs loaded at the beginning to memory and then to be used from BASIC
and all the above listed parts of the program assemled together used from within the program at BASIC like subroutines by CALL-commands instructions and the error-check-routines could pick up results by PEEK-commands.....
so to explain in a very general way:
you can write programs in assembler that afterwards can be used from BASIC program
like a subroutine ( similar like GOTO ... and ... RETURN ) by using a CALL-command
In such case of course you must know to which adress the demanded machineprogram has been loaded to
and each of the above listed kind of "mini-programs in machinecode" must be closed with a RETURN-commandor to be very more precise: in the machinecode-äquivalent of the RETURN-command )
this is just a very brief over view of an example ... in real fact that would turn out, to become a project for several weeks....
so when starting to learn programming language, try to open up your mind far behind the limit of the example just right in front of you.....
sinceerely speedyG
mmphosis,
Sorry, the manual's format does not make sense to me.
I do not think it was written very well.
But thanks for the reply
sincerely,
Cpt Kirk
speedyG
What's up Bro!
The fastest mouse in mexico.
In the roadrunner, I thought it was the "wiley coyote"?
I don't know -- maybe there was an episode that I missed where Sylvester the cat ate the dynamite instead of tweedy bird and was filling in for the coyote
"I Tthought ii Sssaw a Puddy Cat. I DID, I DID!!!"
So your saying that Call can be used like a Gosub command?
The only real hard part here it seems is figuring out how to get BACK from such a command.
For example, if you use a Gosub, the only way that you can get back is with a Return.
That is the part that is confusing here.
Anyways, to be more specific in my definition of the Call command, this is what I meant.
Here is a better definition:
Call: A command that is inside of a program to use any kind of graphics function or any command that helps to use graphics, intergrating it into the program so that the graphics and the program is running at the same time.
Peek: This command is used to check for errors in a program.
A) So is "assembler" a compiler?
C) [My computer was returning an error message in a program that I wrote when I used a Gosub Return formula]
What I was wondering is if something like a "gosub,gosub then return, goto, goto, gosub then return, return" can cause problems?
Example:
1. Gosub
2. Gosub, Return
3. Goto
4. Goto
5. Gosub, Return
6. Return
Captain Kirk
Hello Captain Kirk,
i´ll try to explain little more expanded...
Assembler is a compliler that permits to generate machine code from symbolic language very close to machine language.
the point you probably still miss - is that your thoughts are limited to existing routines within the ROM´s as they are documented in the list from the Beagle Bros. .....
But THAT IS NOT THE ENTIRE VIEW !
Using assembler permits you to write own routines that can be used in regular memory
- BESIDES of those in the ROM !
For example a very common use in former days had been handling of SHAPES in Hires of graphical games....
Take for example a map of "playground" in a hirespage....
the map might be used - to be larger than one hirespage - and its definition might be content of a file at disk.
For playing the game that part of the map shall be loaded to the hires-screen, that is the current area of playing.... ( like using a magnifying glass on the map - and the used area within the bounderies of the magnifying glass ! )
this map is handled as a kind of bitmap.....
NOW it gets interesting :
you can define a shape ( that a very small picture of a play-figure )
sized for example to size of 32 Bit x 32 Bit in quadratic sqare as a kind of Bitmap.
the you can make your own machinecoderoutines by useing a assemblerprogram like Merlin.
with the written OWN graphic routines you can ANIMATE that shape :
1.playfigure turns left
2.playfigure turns right
3. playfigure turns top
4. playfigure turns down
5. playfigure walks left by a) routine "turn left"
........................................check if joystickbutton is pressed
............................................if not turn back to command level in game
............................................if button is pressed continue animate figure walk left
...........................................shift shape in map one step left
........................................return
6. playfigure walks right by b) .....same like walk left exept using routines for right-sided moves....
.....................................return
7. playfigure walks down....
8. plafigure walks up......
then you might for examle add routines for solid hurdles like trees or walls...
9. examine if move of playfigure hits a tree or wall....
...............if in playground map at moving direction is tree execute routine ( BOUNCE )
...............if no problem execute routine MOVE and ANIMATE from above in DIRECTION given by BUTTON from
..................ASK_JOYSTICK
..................return
..............BOUNCE
.................do not execute MOVE or ANIMATE
....................instead execute DISPLAY_MESSAGE_SHAPE
...........................open MESSAGE_SHAPE
...........................DISPLAY IN SHAPE "OOUCH!"
..............return
all returns leed back to command line in BASIC Program that handles the game....
The purpose of the CALL commands in the BASIC program are to handle with fast machine language
the handling of the shapes as ROUTINES for HIRES display or Getting input from joystick to execute
movements in the graphics screen faster than they can be performed from BASIC program....
- and you can expand by that the graphical abilities or other capabilities of the Apple by yourself !
The important thing is, when writting that kind of routines, is to save with a Poke the last position
you have been in BASIC programm to fixed memorylocation with adress defined in BASIC as variable
- and then AFTER the machinecode-routine has been performed in machine language - at the end of the machine language
- the adress is fetched from that defined memory location to the CPU
and instruct the CPU to continue the execution of the code from that adress
by turning back to BASIC...
sincerely speedyG
speedyG,
THANKS FOR THE REPLY!!!
Wow!!! :bigsmile:
I am speechless.
This is much more than I have incorporated into a game program before.
I see how it can be done, though there are a few things that elude me in this process.
However, the main thing is, is that now I have a general blueprint of what can be done and, in general, how to do it.
Right now, the program that I have written is in basic, with no bitmap hexidecimal address, assembly language, or even a graphics screen other than the most basic "letters" showing on the black screen, allowing for keyboard commands to move the letters around. I did not know how to go beyond this capability.
But what I was able to do was to create a "map" that the adventurers can wander around in, battling monsters with word script hits, miss, and damage.
Before I get into details though about some questions, years ago I heard about creating a shape table.
I have always wanted to do this.
I also think this would be a good place to start in creating graphics for such an endeavor!
In my program, I have all the gosub routines at the end of the program.
I thought I made it simple, but I still returned an error.
Because of this trouble I decided to forget about using the Gosub return command anymore and just stick with the goto, since it is more reliable, with no errors.
And at the moment I am trying to perfect my save game, such that it creates a file and is able to save all of the data.
Just recently, I realized that I may also need a temporary save game file to mark where the game is at the moment if I wanted to run others programs and then return to the program that I was in, by means of a "global marker" in a save file.
However, that was also before I realized the capabilities of the call command and what it can do.
But, it still remains that this is something that I have not been able to do yet...
A) How do you create a shape table?
B) You can create your own Peek and Poke commands?
But you can't create your own Call commands?
Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise
I remember there was a program called "flying colors" that allowed you to create your own pictures. You then added into your basic program "Call - 3100 : Poke - 16302,0" The call and poke commands make the computer to display your picture full screen. The call - 3100 command fills 80% of the screen. That is to accommodate your seeing the OS on the bottom of the screen. So, you would create the picture, which was saved as a bin file on the disk. Then you did a chr$ (4) command to bload the picture.
A sample of this technique would be like this:
Let's say that your picture's filename is KIRK1.BIN on the disk:
To load the picture you would write this basic program and then do the SAVE HELLO command under Dos 3.3 to make it all work:
10 D$ = CHR$ (4)
20 PRINT D$,"BLOAD KIRK1"
30 CALL - 3100: POKE - 16302,0
Hello Captain Kirk,
please view correction in quote above !
And about A) ??? well:
You havn´t spent enough time in the BEAGLE BROS. pages i listed above... haven´t you ????
review my first posting !
hint:If you get hints from experienced user, you should not always expect that user to explain
the purpose of the given link that far as i will do in the following....
instead you should of course also visit the links given from the page of which you recieved a link, to
recieve further information too....
experienced users often just pass a "entry" link that permits further research that can be performed by yourself !
the following text just explains by example what you did not do
- and it explains that in fact most of your questions have been answered
with the very first posting from me,
if you would have continued reading in the given link :
otherwise you would have seen in the Poster with the SOFTWARE :
http://beagle.applearchives.com/Posters/Poster%204.pdf
and of course:
http://beagle.applearchives.com/the_software/vintage_beagle_bros_softwar/
(if you click on that small pics, you will be turned to "large views" of that small pics....
the explenation about:
"GPLE" .......- if you start writing larger Programs, well THEN YOU WILL WANT TO USE GPLE.
....................download the disk and the manual and read it
..................- this will be very important tool in writing
....................large programs with a excelent editor.
next you should pick the "Utility City" disk for the utilities for append command !
this permits to make small parts of program with GPLE and then when finished with testing
that part can be appended in Listing to existing larger program at the end !
"Apple Mechanic"..... - you should read the explenation - download the disk and the manual and
....................then you should read even much more in the manual !!!
with this tool you can also make shapes for playing figures instead of letters !
And i can´t imagine how you want to start with Hires without "Alpha Plot"
it´s the most common Hires and shape drawing tool !!! download the disk and the manual and READ THE MANUAL !
and if you want to work within Hires YOU NEVER SHOULD MISS "Beagle Graphic´s" !!!
It´s the second most important tool in such tasks !!!
download it and download the manual !
AND READ THE MANUAL !
WITH THIS 3 GIVEN HINTS TO SOFTWARE PACKAGES just listed here before NEARLY EVERY QUESTION RELATED TO your last question A)above
WOULD HAVE BEEN ANSWERED !
and the following additional Informations was there availiable too ! :
you should download the "Silicon Salad" disk and the manual of course too !
read about the "program splitter" and of course "Auto Hires"!
And of course you should not miss to download the "TIP DISK 1" and the manual !
AND YOU SHOULD READ THE MANUAL !!!! it contains bulks of tools you can use while programming games...
also worth a view: the "Beagle Basic" ! view info´s about the "GOTO & GOSUB" ,
"HSCRN", "ELSE" and "PAGE" commands....
download the disk and the manual and read the manual !
And i am quite sure you did not follow up to my given advice to download and read as soon as possible the "BIG TIP DISK BOOK" ! In former days i bought it, - but you can now instead download it and then print it today from any IBM PC !
The same is valid to the "Frame up" Disk.... you won´t probably be interested in the slide show ---
BUT YOU WILL WANT TO KNOW THE ROUTINES of fast loading hires pictures to the screen !
you should download the "Beagle Bag"
the Beagle Bag even contains 12 games that you can list and where you are permitted to use parts
of the program in your own program ! And OF COURSE YOU MUST READ THE COMMENTS WITHIN THAT PROGRAMS !
they explain "how the routines work"!
and if you have a working printer at your Apple you should also view "Triple Dump" !!!
if you have RAMcard you might also view "extra K" because it gives additional pages !
and of course you should also not miss to read info´s about "Double Take" and there about
"Monitor Listings", "better Renum Append" and not to forget "Variable Display", that helps you on
better tracking of your variables ( , which will help to detect mistakes") !
and if you start "debugging" your programs YOU WON´T WANT TO MISS "D-CODE" -
get it and read the instructions "
After you have solved this task you then can turn back and post further questions ...
if there are any left.... - but i do believe that nearly every question you might have,
or that might come along in next weeks is allready answered within that stuff i just listed here....
so we´re now back to my second posting:
"beam me up Scotty.... Mr. Spock - please pick up the stuff that guy has in his brain and
transfer it to mine... "
sorry it won´t work in this century !
replies given by Mr. Spock in this century....
sincerely speedyG
insanitor,
Yo, what's up dude!
DANG!!
You can use the same type of formula to save and create a file as you can use for a display a graphics options!
That's awesome man.
This is great!
1. When you say "save hello" are you talking about the program that listed all of the files as a catalog on the disk, or were you just using that name as an arbitrary word that you put there?
2. If "Hello" is a program, then THIS would be your "shape table", as it would load all of the shapes that you wanted?
speedyG :bigsmile:
What's going on my brother?
Ok
Yes, I did look at this poster.
However, when I first saw it, I only saw that it was listed in a decimal and hex range, and I have absolutely no idea how to do anything with this, so I simply clicked "exit", and thought to myself, "Well, guess I can't do this!"
However, just now I relooked at this same poster.
Except that this time, I zoomed in really far, trying to examine as MUCH of the detail as is possible.
So here I was reading and reading.
Then, just when I was about to give up, thinking that they were all the same...
Lo and behold, there it was --
There were commands that did not contain any hex or decimal requirements!!
Alby dang!
Imagine that, huh?
What you are referencing is Call -1036, Call -1008, Call -998, and Call -922?
Which means that the "cursor" can be used with graphics instead of the normal text cursor?
Huh, this is the same poster that I look at before.
I only fleetingly looked at it because I didn't think it was anything importaint -- like commands and that sort of thing.
I just thought it was some kind of memto and memoriablia that they threw in there because it had been a page in a magazine or something.
Guess it was just some kind of old advertisements.
Useless. Nothing importaint. So I exited it, and thought no more of it.
Then when I relooked at this same poster after you told me about all those programs, I now realize that those are essentials of programming!
That's good to know -- without you, I would have passed all those by without even the slightest wink.
When you say the "beagle's bag", do you mean the beagle's bag of tricks, or is this a different program altogether?
Yes, the software page.
I've been here. Nothing special.
There were no programs for me to get here so I didn't bother with this part.
Besides -- its only manuals.
And what good is that without the programs.
So I left everything there and thought no more about it.
But if I can get the software...
Would I find the software on this page at?
At Asmiov's possibly, under the section of software?
I did download the BIG TIP DISK BOOK, but have not managed to read it yet.
When I was attempting the use the Gosub return command and found an error, I tried to pinpoint the error with a "trace" command, but, due to the nature of the "jumping halapenoe's" (holy guacamoli, looking at those jumping beams -- they're growing into a beanstalk!), with the gosub command, it was difficult, and could find no solution. It was at this point that I gave up on the program and decided to rewrite it -- this time with only if, then, goto's.
However, this was after long consideration and some looking through the program.
And I know a "onerr goto" can be used for an error, but I don't think it will help me in this situation.
Thanx for the names of all the material to study!!!
I guess your an expert, so I won't bother you with trivial stuff.
I'll just try and study this entire mount everest pile of material here, and I'm sure in several months I'll get a general idea as how to do things.
But anyways, after reading this material, is it alright to ask you some more questions at a later date when I get better at programming?
By the way, I have looked at ALL of your links.
Its really just a matter of reading the whole thing -- and absorbing the information.
I'm sitting there staring at the page, trying to conduct osmosis between the page and myself.
speedyG
I am really that bad at programming?
Sorry I'm not better at programming.
Guess things just take time, AND the know how!
Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise
Hello again,
well probably i even have to explain the most simple "use of any kind of webpage" ???
lets examine the first link i have given to you:
http://beagle.applearchives.com/
well like in most webpages there must be some kind of management to move within the site...
correct???
well what´s about that line below the 2 heads on top ???
Home History Books Software Catalogs Posters Graphics Miscellaneous Wanted Updates Contact Us
you probably should assume that to be the very thing we are talking about ???
now lets come back to your claim in the last posting:
well if you pick from the line shown above :
Home History Books Software Catalogs Posters Graphics Miscellaneous Wanted Updates Contact Us
it will you to a page where you might choose:
Vintage Beagle Bros. Software.... and that will bring you to this page:
http://beagle.applearchives.com/the_software/vintage_beagle_bros_softwar/
lets just for example believe, you would have clicked at the picture of Beagle Graphics ,it would have displayed the enlarged picture of the contents of the disk at this page:
http://beagle.applearchives.com/the_software/vintage_beagle_bros_softwar/beagle_graphics.html
so now it´s getting again very interesting .....
right click with the mouse in the posterpicture and
dialog box pops up ... choosing: the target save at:
and then selecting the place where you desire the package to be saved:"Beagle Graphics.zip"
and after that file is unzipped - wow ! there is not only the manual of the software package
- but also the SOFTWARE itself as Diskimages in DSK-format
ready to be transferred with ADT directly to your Apple Disks....
If any of the zip-files do not contain the DSK images ( and that´s only with few correct )
then nearly everything is also to be found at Asimov ( link also provided in message above ).......
and just besides, if you want 2 things and get only 1 thing at the moment... it´s better to take it...
you might stumble across the other missing thing few days later, if you continue searching for it....
not everything in the web is "ready to eat" - sometimes some patience and "tryout" is required....
sincerely speedyG
The "SAVE HELLO" command saves your startup applesoft basic program on the disk named, "HELLO" which makes it the first one that is run when the disk is booted up.
If you still do not understand what I mean then get yourself a book on Dos 3.3 and start reading.
@insanitor,
if you followed up my explenations above and the replies from Captain Kirk, i guess you can recognize
that i dropped in levels of expectation each step within my replies....
i guess we must assume, that he is not familiar at all with quite a lot of things we are talking about
here....
@ Captain Kirk:
therefor i guess it´s best advice to you:
take the replies here and print them out....
carry out the tasks explained here very seriously by following up instructions and
not just
"skipping along" yeh man oh my god.....
but instead collecting the entire listed stuff !
Sitting down upfront of the Apple....
and reading the books and performing the tasks proposed !
and then...... when this task is seriously carried out and completed ...
if any question is left .... turn back and post next question....
but before that "intermediate learning phase has not been completed" its probably just time waisted...
@insanitor,
i guess you agree, that we know: things that are just copied without reading the additional explanations
in the manuals and books don´t realy result in "true knowledge" and such missing experience then leads:
=>to the mountain of syntax errors and
bad defined variables and
endless non completed searches while
debugging...
and such experience scares users off.....
so i guess it´s better to pull the brake
"just in time" to slow down speed targeting for serious learning....
sincerely speedyG
speedyG,
Yo bro!!
Okay, this may sound strange, but I tried EXACTLY what your instructions said above -- and nothing...
I couldn't figure it out. When I left clicked on the picture -- which I did to 4 different pictures, I ALWAYS got a jpeg image?
How strange! So then I tried again, and this time when the menu box popped up, I didn't see ANY option available that even allowed me to "the target save at" as you said.
So I gave up, and figured that I couldn't do it!
Then, just because -- as I made sure to check all of the links that you left, I clicked on your link and, walla --
there it was: a page that I have never seen before, nor have I been able to get to this screen!
I really don't know how you got here or even found this page -- this is amazing.
But here I was ABLE to get the software!!!!!!
I don't know how you did that...
To tell you the truth, as far as the programming practice goes, in my intermediate level basic training, I have been recently making a catalog of all the various types of commands made into "mini programs" showing their use inorder to make sure I can use them correctly. And before I started this forum, I thought that I wasn't able to use the "save" command, which creates a file. However, upon looking over my notes, I realized that I do. Now the next step is to perfect it -- meaning that I put lots of variables into, and both numbers and words, in a formula that puts them into the file with a Dim. Other than that, that was the only reason why I was going to get on this forum, and because I didn't think that there was anymore that I could learn, or that I NEEDED to learn, as I can write an entire program already. I have long since "completed" a fully functional program with 20,000 in the line number.
I printed out the program, but do not have it available in disk form, as I'm running Applewin and have long since trashed my Apple ][ e. However, I still have the know how -- even though I haven't programmed in this language for 20 years. The program that I spoke of may be on a 5.2" floppy, and was successfully written WITHOUT error in a if, then, goto format!!! The program with the error was a "remake" of the original, made without even the print out!! -- as this is in storage... However, from "the top of my head", even though so many years have passed, and have since them been programming in Windows DOS (not much programming here, but the basic stuff, but knowing the entire language and being able to navigate through it)
1) Is it okay to ask you if a Gosub, gosub, return, return would work in a program?
insanitor,
Hey.
I never really did anything with raw disks. There may have been one occassion where I used them as a "save" disk, but 99% of all my disks were either originals or had disks copied onto them. But what I do remember is that they usually had some kind of "auto" cataloging program.
Almost all of them as I recall.
This cataloging program was mostly called hello, so I figured that was the name of the cataloging program that people wrote and didn't think anything more about it.
It was a nifty program, this "hello" program:
At the touch of a single key (letter) you could run any program on the disk.
It was rather nice.
I don't ever remember having had a problem, though I do remember that I copied this hello program over to many disks.
I rather liked it -- and it came in handy.
I never knew that you HAD to have the first program on the disk named "hello"
And I know that may sound strange to you.
But what is even stranger is that I have used the Apple ][ e for 10 years+, so I am not a "beginner" or first time user!!
I never read the Dos 3.3 book, nor did I know that there even was one.
But I did read the Apple ][ e user's manual, the one with all of the basic commands.
And for all of this time, since 1985, I did not know that Apple ][ e even HAD an OS!!
It was just recently -- and recently as in a couple of days ago, or maybe even yesterday!! that I learned that an Apple ][ e had an OS!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought that the Apple ][ e had an OS prebuilt stock with computer, and have since been cussing out computer manufacturers now days, such as Dell, all because I would say, "yea, back in the days, the Apple ][ e was so great because it already had a working system in it -- you didn't need to install an OS. Dell and others is stupid, I can't believe that make computers like that. A basic system should be prebuilt into all computers when they are bought so you don't have to install the dumb OS's, or at least have a basic level platform to be able to do so, as in being able to 'understand' general computer language commands!!!!!!!!"
P.S. I got all of the software now. Thanks to you speedyG. Your awesome!!!!!!!!!!
Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise
Hello Captain Kirk,
thanks for the explaining reply... it at least explains how misunderstanding has raised up...
to answer briefly the question...:
if you have used :
IF.... THEN....
.......ELSE
.......RETURN
you can easily replace that with:
-----------------------------
REM Routine for conversion
REM input_variable A is hex number
REM input_Variable B is dec number
REM input_veriable C is letter H or D to indicate which direction conversion is to be performed
REM
GOSUB
........ IF .... THEN
.................ELSE
.........RETURN
REM output_variable is....
----------------------------------
this can later also be easily translated to PASCAL:
LABEL:
.........do
.........while
.........return
The big advantage when comparing:
your structure causes lots of routines to be spread within the code of the MAIN-PROGRAM
this causes/bears danger of errors
and it causes difficulties if you want to make changes to the program or parts of it....
the alternate proposal from me:
by using GOSUB you can "ban" all subroutines to the tail of the programm behind the END statement.
by this you get the structure:
Definition of Variables used in Mainprogram
--------------------------------------------
Definition of labels used in Mainprogram
--------------------------------------------
Start of Mainprogram
Mainprogram
End of Mainprogram
--------------------------------------------
Start of Subroutines
GOSUB_1
GOSUB_2
GOSUB_3
and so on
you could even create "groups" of subroutines, that you might re-use later in other programs !
like
Group of subroutines for graphic
GOSUB_1
GOSUB_2
GOSUB_3
Group of subroutines for shapes
GOSUB_4
GOSUB_5
GOSUB_6
Group of subroutines for joystickoperations
GOSUB_7
GOSUB_8
GOSUB_9
and so an
AND RECOGNIZE THE ADDED COMMENTS by using REM ! this permits more easily changes that might be added months later because you find WHAT to CHANGE and HOW to CHANGE !
this is what i was talking about, when talking about "good behaviour" or "bad habits"
I have coded thousands of pages.... i have used various Languages like Assembler, various dialects of BASIC, various kinds of PASCAL and later also C, C++, FORTRAN, LISP, PROLOG and other Languages....
so my advice results from very extended experience....
sincerely speedyG
I've also noticed that he tries to get people to help him more by giving a lot of compliments. But hey, I don't mind that. It's not a character flaw. But compliments cannot get us to help him if he is not willing to do the necessary steps to attain his goals. It explains a lot of the reasons why my algebra skills are terrible.
speedyG,
Hello my friend!!
So when I figure out how to do graphics, I'll know what to do with the "hex" and "dec" numbers?
I didn't know that you could enter these into a basic program...
This is all new to me.
When I read the user's manual years ago, I didn't see anything about entering hex or dec into a command line for a program, nor have I seen any of this on programs written by other people (even big programs written by professionals).
I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here, either this is for a specific peek, poke, or call command, or this is the next step that is required for an intermediate level basic programmer to become an expert!
I don't know what "pascal" is, but I'm assuming that it is like "auto cad", some kind of drawing program?
I have heard of programs that can translate one computer language in a program into another program, changing the commands and such to fit the other language...
speedyG
Are you talking about HOW "i" program, or are you just saying this as a generality?
But anyways, that's still a good idea -- maybe that is where I am going wrong.
Later I will address this issue.
speedyG
What your saying here is that the actually "beginning" of the Gosub should ALSO start after the "end" of the program as well?
In the format of:
100 goto 9010
120 REM finish program here
9000 end
9010 gosub 10000: goto 120
10000 speedyG$="thank you": return
Or if I run the program "over" the END, then it does not count as the "end" of the program?
Okay, then what about this then --
100 gosub 9010
120 REM finish program here
9000 end
9010 A$="I want to become an expert programmer (basic/C++/C#)": gosub 10000: return
10000 speedyG$="you have given me some excellent advice": return
Would this program run, or would I return an error?
Could I do more:
90 Gosub 10010: gosub 10020: gosub 10030: gosub 1040: ?"end of example"
9005 REM this is the gosub section (Start of Subroutines)
10010 B=1: return
10020 C=2: return
10030 d=3: return
10040 e=4: return
1) The "gosub subroutines" that I can REUSE for other programs would have to be saved as separate files?
For years I never used the REM command, as it doesn't do anything.
However, just recently when I got back into programming, I found that REM turned out to be rather nice to have, as it makes it a whole lot easier to find things, and to organize things!!
And when I scroll back through my program, I can see where stuff is!!!!!
Yes, I agree, I'm starting to like REM.
I ALWAYS use it now!!!
I hadn't heard that there were various dialects of Basic.
Only SLIGHT variations?
I don't know what PASCAL or Assembler is or does.
I have never even heard of LISP and PROLOG.
I haven't done anything with FORTRAN, but I'm assuming it is less sophisticated than BASIC?
Someday I want to become an expert programmer in C#.
I figure becoming an expert in Basic first can help me understand the programming thing and be able to allow me to figure out the gist of how I can program in C++/C# or ANY other program that I choose later to pick up!!!!!!!
This is my true quest, my true goal. Not necessarily the commands and language itself, but the "subject" of programming, which will make me an overall better programmer for whatever language that I decide to program in!! That is my soul, who I am, my personality. That is me -- and that is what I do, and enjoy; and want to do. I like programming --
insanitor,
My dear friend, the reason that I compliment people is because that is my nature. I am a nice guy, plain and simple. Some people are arses and rude. And I am the counter. I make up for the people who do not care or take the time to appreciate what people have done for them. That is my flaw, I am kind.
I already said I was about to give up.
Captain Kirk
I did not do these things intentionally to try to get people to continue.
I only showed an interest, and told them what I wanted and was trying to figure out.
insanitor, have you given up programming? :~
The reason why your probably not any good at algebra is because you didn't want to ask for help!
And when you didn't understand things, you did not wish to try and figure out what the answers were by asking someone who knew.
That is the way that an intermediate programmer can become an expert...
sincerely,
Captain Kirk
USS Enterprise
Hello again.....
up to the moment i guess the progress here is not dependent to discussion
but rather more to execution of tasks....
therfor at least i´ll shut up now....
questions will be given on reading the stuff mentioned here before...
answers to GOSUB are given in the manuals... i don´t want to write here an entire book on instructions...
sincerely speedyG
I was never a programmer.
I did ask for help from several people, but they refuse or they lose patience with me due to my extremely slow progress and inability to recognize the patterns found within algebraic terms.
speedyG,
Hi!!
I am glad for all that you have helped me :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
You have done wonders for opening up my mind to architecture.
I want to show you my graditude for the advice you have given me.
When I become better at programming later down the road, maybe I'll talk to you again sometime in the future?
At the moment, I think Poke, peek, and call is way beyond me, as I have never used these in a program before.
As far as these types of commands, I am a beginner.
I just learned that you can make sounds with the peek command.
However, what you have shown me is that I can do graphics from inside of program.
Before you had told me this, I had been planning to exit the program and enter another graphics program to show on the screen, using a global marker and rerunning the original program!!
THANX FOR YOUR HELP speedyG
Sincerely,
Captain Kirk
insanitor,
Hello
I think what went wrong was that you tried to go too fast, and tried to learn too much, so you got overwhelmed, thus causing you to remember less than you were studying.
Your best bet is to start with the simple stuff, with stuff that you know, and then go from there, slowly adding in stuff.
It may have helped you if you sought out a person for questions that had temperence, and was more willing to help you.
I completed Trigonometry.
And The reason why I didn't flunk the class, or flunk out of school for that matter, was because I always had questions.
It was not easy. Not all subjects are easy. But I kept at it, and refused to give up.
I also found people who were glad to answer my questions when I did not understand things.
If you WANT to learn, don't let obstacles stop you...
Sincerely,
Captain Kirk