IIGS and SCSI

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IIGS and SCSI

I have a ROM 01 IIGS with a scsi card installed and connected to an external SCSI HD. I got a hold of a SCSI CD-ROM and connected it to the HD. I installed a terminator block
on the CD drive after connecting it to HD. Now the computer is behaving oddly. Sometimes it boots but almost just hangs up---frozen. The HD is the boot drive. I guess I don't know
much about SCSI. Any help would be appreciated.

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

What model of SCSI card exactly do you have?

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

Not sure but I think It is Apple

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

Different models have their specifics. Most likely you have a bus termination problem and once your setup is completely known and the exact model of the SCSI controller card is determined your problem could be resolved. Generally Apple released two models of SCSI cards that can be seen here http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Interface%20Cards/SCSI%20Controllers/

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

It says Australia and the name of the card looks like "savotech". Hard to read. The HD is a Q Drive purchased new from Quality Computers about 25 years ago. I must have bought the card there.
They were a big seller of Apple II stuff. Full page ads in A+, Incider,etc. Apple magazines.The drive is SCSI id 5 and I have tried 2 and 3 for the CD. I was told that CD-ROM had to have lower id than HD.
There are no DIP switches on card and no connectors, so it must be self terminating at that end.

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

You can use the photos from the link I posted above to properly identify your SCSI card...

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

It is an Apple high speed SCSI card. Looks just like the photo.

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

This card, if not modified, does not provide termination power to the bus. One of your SCSI devices if able should be set to supply termination power (via jumper). If you have as you described two SCSI devices attached to the SCSI card ONLY the last one in the cable chain should have its termination enabled (via jumper or presence of resistor packs).

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

What you describe is what I have. One terminator block at the last device. Also there is a small light that comes on on the terminator block.
I have more than on terminator , one with light, one without. Have tried only the one with light. What soes that light mean?

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

Not exactly. Is there a device that is supplying the termination power (+5V)? The light on your termination block MAYBE indicates that indeed there is termination power provided by either CD drive or HDD. AND you should verify in case you are using a "terminator block" that none of your SCSI devices (HDD & CD drives) have its built-in termination enabled! If ONLY one of them has its built-in termination enabled then if you disconnect the "termination block" everything should work...

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

How do I determine if a device is supplying termination power. I have tried the setup with an old caddy loaded drive and a newer non-caddy
drive. Both are apple brand.

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

davval50,

Lets go back just a bit.

Does the HDD work alone (with termination)?
Does the CD work alone (with termination)?

Have you tried booting with the HDD first in the string and the CD second (with termination)?
For that you have to be sure your number setting on the HDD is lower than the CD.

Steven Smile

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

Well, if the light on your terminator block is on then there is termination power provided somehow. You should focus on the built-in termination of each device you connect to your SCSI bus. In your case all of them should have their built-in termination disabled. But first try everything without the terminator block. And yes, all of your devices including the SCSI card should have different SCSI IDs.

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

Hello davval50,

bearing in mind that the harddisk was working before properly you may assume it to terminate the scsi chain correct...
so probably it´s just a question of switching the place in the chain and connecting first the cdrom drive and later ( at the end of the chain ) positioning the external harddrive...... that terminates correct ...

- but bear in mind that there is another possible trouble ahead:

the cdrom drive behave different if cd is inserted or not....
and it´s also dependent to the setup ( by switches or jumpers )....
first question: is spinup eneabled ?

some cdroms need rather long period till cd is having spin at correct speed and
rather more long time to read in volume name from media ( also depending to it´s condition : scratched or not )...
reporting the volume to the operation system....

it´s recomended to download the manual of the card:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Interface%20Cards/SCSI%20Controllers/Apple%20II%20High-Speed%20SCSI%20Card/Documentation/

- and besides it´s also recommended to search for the documentation about harddisk drive and cdrom drive....
in some cases the information is avaliable at labels on the frame or at printings on the PCB close to switch or jumper areas....

if printing is at pcb - make good picture and store it at your normal pc harddisk....
this permits you to check even later the setup of the harddisk and cdrom drive if prining is not viewable or damaged....

speedyG

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

I removed the terminator from the CD Drive and now the system boots. However I get a message that the disk in the CD is not recognized and asks
if I want to format it. If I say yes the system hangs, also if I boot without a disk in CD it hangs. Should I be seeing an icon for the cd on the desktop. I don't have any GSOS formatted CDs. I thought if I put in a music CD it would be able to play but I still get same error message---not recognized. I am about ready to give up.

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

Is it a SCSI-II CD-ROM connected to the Apple High=Speed SCSI card?

Is the CD-ROM a 2x or faster CD-ROM?

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

Just one of the other not mentioned problems i spotted to above....
In those days some CD-ROMs had problems with CD-ROMs faster than 4x speed...
and the other problem:

quite a bunch of nowaday CD-Roms have copy protection systems if containing Music !

Use only CD-ROM that have been written in ISO9660 and JOLIET standard !
( If you don´t know about this standards - read about them at WIKI ).....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_96
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joliet_%28file_system%29
In general you may also use CD-ROM written with old MAC- software ( OS 9.1 or earlier and Toast )...

It´s just not enough to know a bit about hardware......
you must also learn a bit about software and standards !

Why do i mention this standards ? well, there are several different limitations in the 3 standards
( and we shall not forget the standards of GSOS here too ) we are talking about:
you may not use several signs/letters while naming files in the directories
and the names may not extent a specified amount of letters....
and at least at GSOS you also may not create more than a limited amout of levels of subdirectories...

so it´s quite a good idea to also read a bit about the finder-function at the GSOS.....

otherwise you will get errors from the operation systems....
while they try to get the data from directory....

This thread shows in clear light what happens if someone attempts new stuff
without having gotten prepared correct before....

The stuff about CD ROMs and the standards is explained in the GSOS manual in the technical section !
If you read the basics before the added hardware, then you would know about this....

you may even know about the fact that you can prepare such CD-ROM with software like
NERO burning ROM at PC, but you must set the parameters within the program correct
before writing a CD..... then it´s even possible to make a CD-ROM with bunches
of GS-Software by getting the correct dirs prepared at a PC - if you also use
CIDERPRESS ..... ( of course also previously reading that manual )....

speedyG

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

IT WORKS! I connected the SCSI HD to computer( ID 5), then connected CD drive(ID 3) to HD with a pass through SCSI connecter between them and a terminator block on CD drive.
Now everything works although there has to be a CD in the drive in order to boot. I can read MAC formatted disks but I don't have any GSOS disks. Is it possible to format a CD so it
is GSOS?

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

Up to my knowledge GSOS did not have a CD standard....
Only CD standard in that days have been given by MAC.
If you use Mac standard you can make the disks containing
the GSOS files within the MAC standard.

you can do that by transferring files with ADT to the
Mac and sorting there within some directories and then
programmming CD with toast.

Other option is preparing at SCSI Harddisk a "common" HFS
partition and sorting there the stuff sharing access
from Mac and from GS by pluging the disk either to Mac or to GS.
hint: in old MACs (G3) the common SCSI card was Adaptec 2906.

speedyG

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Re: IIGS and SCSI

You can make a ProDOS CD. I haven’t done one in about 15 years or so. The way I did it was to set up a hard drive with ProDOS partitions and if I wanted HFS partitions. Then I’d connect it to a Mac. I’d boot the Mac with the ProDOS hard drive off. I’d turn on the hard drive and boot Toast. Then I’d have it do a device copy. That feature was removed later. I imagine that’s how they did the Golden Orchard CD. I still have a few ProDOS CDs. I dug out a IIe backup CD I’d made and booted my IIe off it. Interesting seeing my IIe HD from back then

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