I have created this topic, in case anyone finds a source of parts for the Apple 1 replicas.
if you find something that might be of interest to others, ie capacitors, chips etc, post it in here.
I'll start the ball rolling with IT Closed frame IC sockets.
They are $275 US for a full set, a bit expensive, but they are becoming harder to locate.
btw this is not my listing, just something I came across last night.
This is far beyond "a bit expensive"....
it´s rather more a "holdup and get your hands up high" offer....
They are also mostly incorrect !
Well it's not a complete set...
BTW. I have in the past paid more than this for a set of sockets when I started out. I had the first Mimeo with correct sockets and not counting failed purchases I paid more than $500 total for the full set with a couple of spares. They used to be much rarer but a lot of the 16 pin was found and flooded the market. The 16 pin used to be the hardest. Now it's 8 pin, then 14 then 16 then 24 then 40 in order of hardest to easiest to find with the 24 and 40 about the same.
I also noticed, I guess this is what Clint was referring to. Some have letters and some don't so the sockets are a mixed even for a type. For a non NTI I don't think there were letters and for an NTI it could have been either but most that i have seen pics of have no letters. But either way the set usually matched so all letters on the 16 or 14 pin or none.
I wasn't aware of this "letters / no-letters" thing...
It's getting more and more complicated, my initial enthusiasm is seriously at risk
Moreover, I've just realized that the 40-pins type I have here show two inner grooves running along borders that I don't see in that picture. Guess mine are not the correct ones... I wonder how many variants of these sockets there could possibly be?
Ridges in the 40 pin are correct
The type I have here (genuine blistered TI sockets from 30 years ago, C844002) show a small dent at the end of each ridge, plus two grooves approx 1mm wide running along the longest borders
Ok now you have me confused. Can you post a picture?
So what are the most accurate sockets for a reproduction and are they the best to use or are there other types better?
TI low-profile, closed frame type?
Letters or no letters?
Grooves or no grooves?
Large or small letters?
It really depends on which "run/board" you are trying to reproduce.
For example, when I built my Mimeos I used a specific early byte shop boards as an example,
Even the first run of byte shop boards can have some "discrepancies" between each other. For example some have the edge connector printing turned in and some out.
For NTI and Byte Shop board sockets all the 40 pins seem to have the ridges in the 40 pin like the link I posted above. On the 40 pin some seem to have scratched lettering in the 40 pin (I can confirm they all don't, I have seen at least one without)
For the embossed lettering, I have seen most don't, then again I have seen one that does.
So the rule here is, they must be TI closed frame, only the 40 pin has ridges and it may or may not have lettering.
Remember we have only seen about 60 out of a couple of batches totaling around 200 that were made and there were differences between them in some of the soldered in components. Only a few soldered in parts were consistent across all Apple-1s.
Hope it can help...
BTW, in the pic you posted I cannot see any TI logo on the 24-pin sockets... or is it just a picture artifact?
On the Schoolsky computer, the logo appears on the 76154 socket and apparently not on the 2513 (though the 2513 socket is just a bit out of focus, logos on nearby chips are visible). Note that this computer was from a batch that were never populated with ICs, made to work and sold, so if you are recreating it, you should leave the chips out of it.
Hallo to all AFmembers,
Just to kick off endless discussions it might be usefull to talk abount visible pictures instead of external links....
in fact it seems that in very early boards some sockets have been used without the TI-logo....
- but in general the socket had the logo
( this seems to be related to the fact that Texas seems to have added the embosed logo in the beginning of 1976 to its
sockets and some suppliers used by the factory, that did the wavesoldering still delivered the old ones without logo
from 75 or earlier - and the fact that the sockets had been mixed in the storage of that factory ... )
In fact one of the important indicators to have the correct sockets is the fact that they had at the bottom side
a transparent plastic sheet, that fixed the pins within the socketcase like displayed in this picture below.
This kind of plasticsheet had been used in all sockets from 8-pin to 40-pin:
As explained above in general the sockets had a embosed TI Logo in the center of the socket.
The later the board had been made the more sure that sockets had a logo
( within the NTI boards nearly no board had a socket without logo ).
And it seems that at the same time that the logo had been added only few later
( within the next 6 months after the logo had been added )
also the letters had been added, to identify the machine ( or factory ) that made the socket.
So there might be mixing on the board, if sockets had a imprinted letter or not.
But it´s same valid statement as to the logo... the later the board had been populated
the less chance to such a socket without letter.
So if you intend to copy NTI-board you should use sockets with the letter
and if you want to copy a "pre-NTI" board you may also use those without letter.
and in the followup the detailpistures of the sockets....
8-pin socket here:
14-pin socket here:
16-pin socket here:
24-pin socket here:
40-pin socket here:
as it can be viewed in the pictures above the ridges only appeared at the 40-pin sockets.....
I hope this ends up discussing the appearance of the sockets
and we might now turn back to the initial target of the thread :
listing sources from where to get items
for the build of the boards....
your info is extremely helpful, still I have 40-pins sockets with ridges, TI logo, plastic sheet on the back and correct part code stamped on unopened blisters and they slightly differ from the one you posted.
Fact is that there are too little pictures of original unpopulated Apple 1 boards to wipe doubts away, unless some more Apple 1 owners step in, the risk of finding and ordering the correct part code and ending with the wrong sockets remains. It is also true that this is a problem for the die-hard purists only.
Allthough i was hoping to end the discussion upon the sockets....
Why don´t you post a picture and explain what you believe to be different by displaying a picture ???
If you are talking about the ones, of which you posted a link in posting 11 -
well those are from the early 80´s ( something between 1983 and 1985....) and yes ! that are the wrong ones....
Are you aware that this discussion is like a "dog chaising tail" since the last 10 postings without any result ?
the thread started with the intention to list here souces for parts and not for discussing the sockets....
at least that´s what i remember about the first postings at the beginning of the thread - specially the very first one....
how about own thread: How do the sockets from TI should look alike ?
just my 5 cents ....
Because I did it already.
I do, and that's the picture I took because it was kindly requested and I uploaded it to imageshack.
Great, thank you. See? It wasn't that difficult to be of any help.
Since we're discussing parts sources, and since parts usually have a part number, maybe someone could be interested in knowing that if he finds and orders C844002 he may end with wrong sockets in his hands, even though the part number is correct. I wasn't aware of that, so this discussion has not been useless to me.
But OK, let's not talk about sockets anymore, I surely don't want to drive anyone nuts because of a post.
Would love it.
this guy offers several TI-sockets.... he is very expensive....
most of the sockets are not the correct ones.....
- but 1 offer for 40-pin TI-sockets seems to be correct:
same offer but from english ebay:
- but pay attention.... the other 40-pin sockets and the other 24-pin sockets he offers, are the
wrong ones ( to high border, 40 pin without ridges, older production before 1974.... )
Thankyou SpeedyG for your observation I have just purchased 2 now I only need 16 pin sockets and I can warm my soldering iron up
Anyone looking for MOS 6502 and AMI 6820 PIA?
A tad steep at $US2500
Here is an old Ceramic MOS 6502 CPU being 1975 it will almost certainly contains the ROR bug.
Opening bid, $US500.00
Both are the wrong part for an Apple-1. The early ones used the much rarer silver cap with gold around the edge.
Yes those two on eBay are rarer than the more common ceramic 6502 in the NTI Apple-1 (spider legs is how I think of them), but they at still not as rare as the one in a "byte shop" Apple-1.
I recently had an opportunity to take a close look at the sockets on a non-NTI Apple 1.
I thought that perhaps these images might be useful to some researchers out there.
Some key items to note:
The 16 pin socket has two small numbers embossed on it in the corners. They are 9 and 16.
Some of the sockets have 1, 8, 9, and 16. Others have 1 and 8. I believe yet others have no numbers at all. Unfortunately I didn't have a chance to notice if sockets other than the 16 pin ones had numbers on the corners.
The sockets on this board, with the exception of the keyboard, appear to be tin, not gold. Some of the others may have been gold, but the keyboard was the only one that was clearly gold when viewed from the side and above.
I am looking for at least 5 of the 16-pin sockets, but they need to match the above. Based on that, I am afraid that the gold leaded ones are not quite right. I suspect that the C83-series parts are correct although which specific part number is correct, I do not know. From the TI databook that I have, the C831610 should have a notch, and thus aren't correct. From the gold leaded parts individuals have posted, it sounds like perhaps C831602 might be correct.
Thanks for sharing such interesting informations
Here is another MOS 6502.
That's a nice chip and easy to clean up. Hopefully who ever buys it knows what they are doing when they remove the rest of the tape adhesive. If you use the wrong stuff they will remove the writing.
Personally I'm jealous of the chip tester in the last pic. I have the leaper which doesn't do CPUs, but that BK percision is nice but over $1000 bucks.
This is kind of on topic.
Any one notice the glaring problem with 6820?
You need to put that in the "This is laughable!!" Thread
The point is - it isn´t a VIA !
Looks like he found the missing half.
including the horrible crack where the case has been entirely broken from
pin 14 at one side to pin 27 at the other side and the even more diletantic
attempt to glue the brolen parts together.... that is crap for the waste...
speedyG I agree totally.
I guess it has a small aesthetic value for collectors
Nice to see he has dropped his price from $500+ to almost nothing, which is exactly what it is worth.
I've been pulling chips for 30+ years and never come close to damaging one like, that i would have to think how it got broken.
Such a waste of a relatively rare chip.
In general most pulls occure at recycling yards..... you remember that nice guys
with a sledge hammer which clobbered in former days ( before using hydraulic press ) the cars to "handy size"
- "big guys" with huge muscle packs and sixpack belly ..... ?
Maybe the person who pulled the chip is originated from "muscle beach" California.....
Now, now, fella's...
At least the chip is suitable for framing with a nice lable that says:
"This chip is an example of how NOT to treat Rare Items."
Any one for a suitable keyboard? Its hard to say but it looks parallel?
Apple 2 compatible keyboards.
I just bought 2 of these, brand spanking new, keytronics keyboard from Franklin Ace 1000, with Apple II compatible socket.
eBay has AMI 6820's nice ceramic case, dated 1975.
There's a complete set of Apple 1 TI IC sockets up on eBay.
The 16 pin parts are clearly marked C9316 and the 40 pin sockets are marked C9340. Both of these would then be gold inlay parts. The 14 pin ones are tin inlay (from the writing on the side.) It looks like the 8 pin parts may be tin inlay, but looking at the sockets from an angle can be deceiving. The 24 pin parts look like gold inlay on the second picture.
I mentioned this before, but some may have missed it. The one non-NTI Apple I have examined in detail appears to have tin inlay sockets, with the exception of the socket for the keyboard connection. That one socket looks to be a gold inlay model. This is obviously not enough to state with statistical certainty that Apple used them this way on all of their boards, but I offer it as a data point to those looking for the ultimate in accuracy.
I have managed to match some tin inlay parts with the models C8316-02 and C8340-02.
After corresponding with one seller, I believe that the C84## parts are the type that have a cut-out on the ends. They may be tin, but the body is wrong.
I will try and post some images this evening of the various TI sockets I have found.
> After corresponding with one seller, I believe that the C84## parts are the type that have a cut-out on the ends. They may be tin, but the body is wrong.
I can definitively say that is incorrect. I have some C8414-02 sockets and they do not have any cutouts or notches on the ends. The body is identical to those in early Apple-1 photographs. The type of body seems to depend on the date of manufacture, not the part number.
How frustrating. I was afraid that might be the case, since I've seen the same issue with the gold ones. I was hoping that the extension (-XX) might help make a determination, but that doesn't seem to be the case either.
I have images of the notched ones and "regular" ones, both tin, I'll have them uploaded shortly.
Actually you can't use the part number to find the right sockets only eliminate potential matches. TI changed the sockets over the years without actually changing the part number. Aries appears to be the current manufacturer of the socket but they are open frame with a Mylar backing. Yes there is a different part number for the plated vs non plated pins. Also I'm not sure you can go by the pre NTI having a different keyboard socket. They have been replaced on a few boards. The one you examined may have had the socket replaced since it is a weak point of a computer without a case that the keyboard may be unplugged a lot.
I managed to obtain quite a few date correct Signetics 555 chips. I realize Fairchild parts were used on most or all Apple Is, but these are even harder to find.
I would prefer to trade them for other date correct Apple 1 parts rather than sell them. If you are interested, contact me with what you might like to trade. I also have rare correct 8 pin sockets (used, carefully de-soldered, pre-NT1 with TI logo but no letter).