Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

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Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

All,

I need help.

I have been away from doing regular Apple II stuff for a while.
I want to get back to it, but it seems somewhere along the path
(no pun intended)I have lost my way.

I am back at my trusty Platinum IIe trying to copy all of
my disks (Games and Utilites) to my CFFA Cards.
I have read the CFFA Manuals, but there does not seem to be a definite step-by-step
procedure for copying programs.

For instance:

I want to copy my Wizardry "Proving Grounds" game to CFFA.
The catalog says that this is a Pasqual Disk.
Does my CFFA Card need to be formatted in Pasqual?
If so, can I set it up in a separate directory (Like Prodos)?

I also want to copy DOS 3.3 programs.
Using the Apple Utilities and Copy II+ 9.1
it will only allow Prodos and Pasqual formatting.

It seems that the dominant format for the CFFA is PRODos.
Can you copy DOS 3.3 or Pasqual Disks to PRODos and will the programs run?

I checked the current crop of 'Fritter Threads, and different CFFA items
have been covered
, but not this particular one.

I'm not sure I want to bother Rich (Dreher) with this as
he ia out conquering the Apple I CFFA World at the moment. lol

So... I'm asking for some help and/or advice.

Thanks to all in advance.

Steven Smile

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?


I am back at my trusty Platinum IIe trying to copy all of
my disks (Games and Utilites) to my CFFA Cards.
I have read the CFFA Manuals, but there does not seem to be a definite step-by-step
procedure for copying programs.

Are you talking about the original (pre-3000) CFFA? If so, that isn't really something one does with a CFFA. Recall that the CFFA is at its heart a ProDOS hard drive. You don't just copy DOS or Pascal games/files to a ProDOS hard drive. Now, with a CFFA3000, you could simply rip all of your disks to .dsk files, and load them up on the virtual floppy drive support it has. But with the original... that's not possible.

For instance:

I want to copy my Wizardry "Proving Grounds" game to CFFA.
The catalog says that this is a Pasqual Disk.
Does my CFFA Card need to be formatted in Pasqual?
If so, can I set it up in a separate directory (Like Prodos)?


You could format one of the CFFA partitions as Pascal. But that's not going to help with your Wizardry scenario (pun intended). It still has its volume-number based copy protection to worry about.

I also want to copy DOS 3.3 programs.
Using the Apple Utilities and Copy II+ 9.1
it will only allow Prodos and Pasqual formatting.

For single load DOS games that do not depend on the underlying operating system, you may get away with copying the executable to a directory and running it from there - but it will be the exception rather than the rule.

It seems that the dominant format for the CFFA is PRODos.

Not dominant. Only.

From http://dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/background.php :

"I wanted only ProDOS support."
"Now if I could only get RobotWar to run off a ProDOS disk??? hmm.. Update: I have found that DOS.MASTER by the late Glen Bredon, allows me to run RobotWar and other DOS3.3 software from any ProDOS disk!"

Can you copy DOS 3.3 or Pasqual Disks to PRODos and will the programs run?

In some limited circumstances. The single-load DOS programs I mentioned above, and also using Glen Bredon's DOS.MASTER program that will essentially load up a pile of DOS disk images as one ProDOS package and you address them as various volumes. See:
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/disk_utils/Glen%20Bredon%27s%20DOS.MASTER-ReadMe.txt

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

Hello Steven,
besides the problem of the Operation Systems you will face at least at the DOS 3.3 Games the problems with a variety of copy protection shemes....
if you try to view the catalog of such disks - a lot of them used tools like Bag of Tricks and similar to modify the catalog.... and if you try to copy them with file-mode-transfer - you will get from a lot of such disks errors because it was common to rename them with seemingly same names used previously ( but in fact they are different within the hidden characters ).... but sometimes you can get the true names visible within the file using a sector-editor....
but anyhow believe me one thing ... it takes several months tough learning if you want to handle the learning about the different kinds of protection and how to unlock them....
my advice: you may try to move the files from DOS 3.3 to ProDOS with conversion tool - but if the game won´t run after conversion... then forget it.... even with the knowledge about the protection shemes it takes several days to kick a disk from DOS 3.3 to ProDOS in working unlocked condition....
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

Thanks David Smile
Thanks Speedy Smile

OK... Jeopardy Round 2!

I can go to Asimov.
Copy the .dsk files.
Place these files into PRODos directories on my CFFA Card.
(Note: I am running 32 Meg Cards for my Plat IIe)
Run these .dsk files from my card.

Are these correct statements?

Once I copy the .dsk files to the CFFA Card,
What is the correct procedure for starting a program?

Thanks Again!

(Note: You know what's funny?... I used to know all of this many moons ago, and somehow the knowledge has just up and left. Like the train just left the station with my brain onboard.)

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?


I can go to Asimov.
Copy the .dsk files.
Place these files into PRODos directories on my CFFA Card.
(Note: I am running 32 Meg Cards for my Plat IIe)
Run these .dsk files from my card.

Are these correct statements?


Not in the least, unless you are talking about a CFFA3000. Which so far you have given no indication that you are.

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

David,

Yes sir.

CFFA3000 Card. Smile

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA3000 Card?

Ok, then let's change the subject line, shall we? There. Done.

Ok. All you need to do is copy .DSK files to the storage media of your choice (CF card, or USB stick). Then, you choose the .DSK images to load up into the virtual floppy drive slots in the CFFA3000 via the menu.

Looking at version 1.2 of the CFFA3000 reference manual, that's part of the quickstart instructions on page 6 - specifically starting at step 8.

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

Cool.
Thanks David.
I'm on it.

Steven Smile

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

David, Speedy, and All,

David Said:

Now, with a CFFA3000, you could simply rip all of your disks to .dsk files, and load them up on the virtual floppy drive support it has

Yep! I read that. I can rip all my floppies to .dsk files and run them.
Fantastic.

Now, there is one final question and the manual does not seem to touch on it.

The 3000 comes with a 16GB USB stick.
According to what I'm reading, this stick is already formatted.
It does not require partitioning in order to use .dsk files.
So all I should have to do is start placing .dsk files on it.

Is that a correct statement, or am I missing something?

Steven Smile

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

The 3000 comes with a 16GB USB stick.

It does? Really? Rich packed one with your card? That wasn't the case with mine.
According to what I'm reading, this stick is already formatted.

That's the case with virtually all USB sticks, yes. It should be formatted with some variation of FAT. If you plug it into a modern PC, your Windows or Mac OS should recognize it and be able to copy files to it as-is.
It does not require partitioning in order to use .dsk files.
So all I should have to do is start placing .dsk files on it.

That should be correct, yes.

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

YES!!!

Thanks David. Smile

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

David, Speedy and all,

Ok. I'm stuck.
This is what I did.

1. Formatted and made 1 32 Meg Partition using the G5 on my 32 Meg CF Card.
2. Made a .dsk image of Wizardry 1 on the on the CF Card.
3. Using the manual I set up my 3000 in Slot 7 and kept Slot 6 empty.
4. Tried mounting the .dsk using both methods shown in the book.
5. No matter what I do (even using the #9 Boot Key), the computer tries to boot from
the Dou-Disk Drive in Slot 5.
6. I pulled the TransWarp out of Slot 3, thinking that might be the culprit. Nope.

I am not sure what I am doing wrong.
I have read, and re-read the chapter with the same results.

Am I missing something?

Steven Smile

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

Step 3.5: did you set up virtual slot 6 to be the floppy drive emulator?
Step 4: did you virtually insert your .dsk image in the slot 6, drive 1 of the emulated drive?

I don't remember if you are on a GS or not... if so, be sure slot 6 is set to "your card" in the control panel.

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

David,

I'm using a Platinum IIe.

I'm going to go through again this evening.

Does it matter if the original disk was a DOS 3.3 disk if you convert it to a .dsk image?

Steven Smile

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

I'm using a Platinum IIe.

I'm going to go through again this evening.

Does it matter if the original disk was a DOS 3.3 disk if you convert it to a .dsk image?


Nope.

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

Ok.

Steps completed:

1. No Problem.
2. No Problem
3.a.I am only using the Disk Emulation, so I only require 1 slot.
3.b.I placed the 3000 in slot 7.
4. Since I am only using Floppy Emulation and not the smart drive I can
use Slot 7.
5. Insrted the CFFA Card into the 3000.
6. Turned on the IIe while pressing the "M" key. The Menu comes up.
7. Selected Slot 7 for emulation.
8a. Selected "Disk II Assignments".
8b. Pressed th "1" key to mount the .dsk file to Slot 7 Drive 1.
I had the u> Wiz1.dsk highlighted on Disk II S7 D1
9. I pressed Ctrl-B to reboot as directed. I get the "[" Prompt.
9-2 I back out to the main menu and press item 10 (Boot). I get the "[" Prompt.

That's where I am now.
I have done this numerous time in the past couple of evenings and I'm getting no bootup of the .dsk.
What am I doing wrong?

Steven Smile

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

a) Please, PLEASE use slot 6. I don't know if Wizardry requires it, but... it might.
b) PR#6 (or PR#7 if you're ignoring my advice). What happens?

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

a) Please, PLEASE use slot 6. I don't know if Wizardry requires it, but... it might.
b) PR#6 (or PR#7 if you're ignoring my advice). What happens?

Hello David snd Steven,
I would give advice even a bit modified:
Steven might keep the CFFA in slot 7 -

BUT:

It is still mandatory to obay the demand to set the emulation to:

DISK II No.1 => is Slot 6 Drive 1 => reserved for Bootdisk
DISK II No.2 => is Slot 6 drive 2 => reserved for Data Disk or second side of disk

Reason:
Some games expect "to see" datadisk inserted in Drive 2 ( similar like UCSD Pascal expects Disk 2 in drive 2 while startup ),
because some additional files might( - or must ) be loaded from there !
Never forget: some games are made in UCSD pascal !!!!

And to access Games ONLY USING : PR#6 !

The boot-commands are not really exactly using the same entrypoint ( of the autostart-ROM ) and the
emulation uses the entrypoint also used from Applesoft-Programming
!

explenation: Ctrl-B is "Hardware boot" and starts with entry point at scanning slots and then -
if a device is found - will start to boot from the hardcoded eprom of the card....

while "PR#6" enters the bootstage later at the a defined slot without scanning.....

Reason: If he/you boots with Ctrl-B he/you will still remain to be able to access the menu for "disk changes" by accessing the card with PR#7 and turning back to the Software in memory by :
call -151
3D0G return
or maybe even better 3D2G return !

or re-entering the Applesoft-proramm at last executed line in position of 121,122 of the Applesoft Zeropage
( see Beagle Peek and Poke Chart ! )

second reason : by setting the emulation to same slot as the one where the card really is inserted -
the access to the menu is blocked by the emulation ! ( No "disk change" availiable - until reboot is issued with hardware reset or power down > power up sequence is performed to delete the emulation and permit again access to the menu....

to David:

of course your first argue would be:
is there really a difference ?
my answer :YES !

explenation:
there are different kinds of images out there....
some images have been taken from the original disks including the protection sheme and
...... including commands with "b-loads" to => ampersand-loading routines modified for faster access of graphics...
...... reading with machine code tracks to memory instead of "b-loading" datafiles

and other images contain disks resulting from "rippoffs" with the wildcard or similar
NOT including protection shemes or probably NOT containing the access to files with ampersand-loading of graphics
which might have been accessed later again at another reload after the "crack" has been taken by the wildcard or similar....
you know the code of the emulation and you probably can imagine the different behaviour and results from the
emulation depending from the kind of "sources" of .DSK resulting from the different facts above....
i guess there is no further hint needed...

sincerely speedyG

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

David said:

a) Please, PLEASE use slot 6. I don't know if Wizardry requires it, but... it might.
b) PR#6 (or PR#7 if you're ignoring my advice). What happens?

Steven: Using Slot 6
Once I get the "[" prompt after entering PR#6
The response is: "No Disk II Boot Sector In Slot 6."
Then the "[" prompt

Speedy said:

Hello David snd Steven,
I would give advice even a bit modified:
Steven might keep the CFFA in slot 7 -

BUT:

It is still mandatory to obay the demand to set the emulation to:

DISK II No.1 => is Slot 6 Drive 1 => reserved for Bootdisk
DISK II No.2 => is Slot 6 drive 2 => reserved for Data Disk or second side of disk

Reason:
Some games expect "to see" datadisk inserted in Drive 2 ( similar like UCSD Pascal expects Disk 2 in drive 2 while startup ),
because some additional files might( - or must ) be loaded from there !
Never forget: some games are made in UCSD pascal !!!!

And to access Games ONLY USING : PR#6 !

The boot-commands are not really exactly using the same entrypoint ( of the autostart-ROM ) and the
emulation uses the entrypoint also used from Applesoft-Programming !

explenation: Ctrl-B is "Hardware boot" and starts with entry point at scanning slots and then -
if a device is found - will start to boot from the hardcoded eprom of the card....

while "PR#6" enters the bootstage later at the a defined slot without scanning.....

Reason: If he/you boots with Ctrl-B he/you will still remain to be able to access the menu for "disk changes" by accessing the card with PR#7 and turning back to the Software in memory by :
call -151
3D0G return
or maybe even better 3D2G return !

or re-entering the Applesoft-proramm at last executed line in position of 121,122 of the Applesoft Zeropage
( see Beagle Peek and Poke Chart ! )

second reason : by setting the emulation to same slot as the one where the card really is inserted -
the access to the menu is blocked by the emulation ! ( No "disk change" availiable - until reboot is issued with hardware reset or power down > power up sequence is performed to delete the emulation and permit again access to the menu....

to David:

of course your first argue would be:
is there really a difference ?
my answer :YES !

explenation:
there are different kinds of images out there....
some images have been taken from the original disks including the protection sheme and
...... including commands with "b-loads" to => ampersand-loading routines modified for faster access of graphics...
...... reading with machine code tracks to memory instead of "b-loading" datafiles

and other images contain disks resulting from "rippoffs" with the wildcard or similar
NOT including protection shemes or probably NOT containing the access to files with ampersand-loading of graphics
which might have been accessed later again at another reload after the "crack" has been taken by the wildcard or similar....
you know the code of the emulation and you probably can imagine the different behaviour and results from the
emulation depending from the kind of "sources" of .DSK resulting from the different facts above....
i guess there is no further hint needed...

sincerely speedyG

Steven:

For game Access: Response "No Disk II Boot Sector In Slot 6."
Then the "[" prompt

Placed the "Wiz1.dsk" in D6 S2
Entered CTL-B
Get "[" Prompt
Enter PR#6
Response: "No disk in slot 6"

I do believe that you may be right though Speedy.
Not all .dsk programs are created equal.

This is my reasoning...

I deleted the .dsk and recreated it with my equipment.
It still would not boot.
Apparently it the CFFA card is not formatted correctly.

That's where I'm at right now.

I won't be home till late tomorrow night as
I am helping my mother move.
I may not get back to this until Sunday or Monday.

Thanks for the Assist!

Steven :)

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

Ok David and Speedy (and whom (Whom or Who?) ever else wants to chime in) ,

Do you think I'm barking up the wrong Apple Tree with the idea that I did something wrong when I partitioned and formatted the CFFA Card?

All options are on the table.

Steven Smile

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Re: Help_The Best Way to Copy Files to the CFFA Card?

David and Speedy:

It's my own fault!
I admit it!

I guess I was having a bunch of "Senior Moments".

1. Not all .dsk files are created equal.

I downloaded several that I had from Asimov and most of them worked perfectly.
I played SSIs "BattleGround" as soon as I had it selected and hit "CTRL-B".

Another game booted, but then wanted a second disk and there was none.

2. The Wizardry "Proving Grounds" .dsk that I made myself...
Well, if I had made a .dsk for both sides of the disk, I would not have had any problems,
since the "B" side of the disk is the actual Boot side.
DOH!

So is there an actual problem anymore?
I don't think so.
I plan to keep working with it until I can do it in my sleep, blindfolded, with both hands tied behind my back, in the kneeling position. lol

Thanks everyone for all the input.

"By George I think I've got it!"

Steven Smile

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