IIe power supply recommendations?

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IIe power supply recommendations?

Hi,

After acquiring a couple of Platinum IIes off eBay and them arrive with bad PSs :(. I am wondering if anybody has a recommendation for power supplies.

I will add the following cards to one of the IIes

aux-Ramworks III
slot1-mouse
slot2-uthernet
slot3-Transwarp IIe
slot4-Mockingboard clone (Soon)
slot5-empty
slot6-drive controller
slot7-Microdrive (Soon)

Right now I am using a 300w atx, but it's pretty ugly but does the trick.

Would you say that this card load is too much to say order a tested IIe ps from Dr. Ken?

Any input appriciated.

Thx

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?
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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

That's quite heavy load....
that proposed solution probably won't solve the issue because 68 Watt isn't far more than the regular psu....
there are several threads here related to that topic.....
also some about modification / upgrade like at this page:
http://www.appleii-box.de/H037_AppleIIupgradingPowersupllies.htm

with your configuration you should have at least a supply with +5V / 7 to 8 Ampere.

speedyG

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Thx Guys!

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

BTW that's the page I checked out for my present mod. Wink

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hello,

please note that the LITEON power supply shown at http://www.appleii-box.de/H037_AppleIIupgradingPowersupllies.htm has no -5V supply, so I don't understand how that can work.

Luca

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hello Boletus,

In fact that supply did have the - 5 Volt availiable .....
It's a regular PC-ATX Powersupply - just at small size specially for very small "slimline" desktop cases...
So please don't state wrong facts.....

In old days there was something called "text"...
a bunch of alphabetic sign's that humans could "read"...... Wink

speedyG

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Boletus,

According to the Pin-Out graphic (ATX Powersupply Plug)
in the link you gave, -5 Volts is
shown as Pin 18.

I just read it.

Steven Smile

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hello Steven,

not only the pinout.....
within the text it was mentioned that -5 Volt is availiable
with strength up to 0,5 Ampere..... ::)

unfortunatly it's not the first reply from boletus that
containes "poor" content.... and usually i don't use my time on him....
he believes to know so much..... sigh Beee

but in this case he stated my site to contain wrong information.... "that he can't understand how it works..."
and that's a puppy barking in the wrong backyard.... Wrufff! Wink
LOL
speedyG

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Well, Speedy, for what it's worth, your prescription was just what the doctor ordered Wink Saved me some time, and has my hot rod IIe running like a champ! Smile

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Just BY THE SPECS the liteon PE-5221-08 AP suggested in the article does not have a -5V output

IMAGE(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll159/Paolino-Paperino/6809/liteon_zpsgbmrctdu.jpg)

but, apart from that, the article does not mention that, starting from 2004, the -5V output has been removed from the ATX POWER SUPPLY specification ("poor content"??) , so a warning is missing about this simple fact and people might be misleaded in thinking that ATX power supplies are all the same and waste money buying the wrong one.

For example, one might be tempted to buy a FSP Group FSP250-50GUF 250W power supply on ebay that perfectly fits the Apple II power supply case but that has no -5V output (a V2 spec).

As for the inopportune offense, I'm sorry to have sparked someone's jealousy but I assure that I'm here just to try to help and/or share my experiences and not to judge anyone or prove that I'm the "top of the class" so, to my post, a simple answer as

"I installed a liteon PE-5221-08 AP and even if it's not specified in the specs it has a -5V output"

would have been a more constructive statement than sending me "barking around".

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Boletus wrote:
Just BY THE SPECS the liteon PE-5221-08 AP suggested in the article does not have a -5V output

Hello Boletus,

we're back to the page:
The power supply was mentioned in the page just as: LiteOn powersupply !
NO MODEL-NO. !
Second: nice to see your label....
but:
the serial of mine was: 00099930
the serial from your label is: 01086635 !
Do you really want to start arguments about changes in series while production is ongoing
and poor documentation from chinese factories to such changes in model series ?

In text in general i mentioned to use a PC ATX powersupply.
The only point on your side that i seriously recognize is that in very few cases some ATX-powersupplies
don't offer the -5 Volt rail ( but not in the case of the one i used ! )

So in your current attitude without ironic spoiler:
correct objection would have been:
"Some PC-ATX powersupplies do not have a -5 Volt rail and it might be a good idea
to add to that page a solution to solve that issue, by getting the -5Volt taken off from the -12 Volt rail."

taking that as a note, i will add such a solution to that page.

sincerely
speedyG

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hello speedyG,

I reported just a Liteon PE-5221-08 AP label meaning only that it does not list the -5V output.

To be (me an You) as constructive as possible with respect to this forum and other people reading this discussion, can You please confirm that Your Liteon PE-5221-08 AP serial n. 00099930 is an ATX V1 compliant power supply , it has a -5V ouput and that it is fully Apple II compatible even if its label does not list a -5V output so we all can take it as a correct reference?

IMAGE(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll159/Paolino-Paperino/6809/LiteOn01_zpsdupibwkn.jpg)

That is not still clear to me but it might be that my native language is Italian and I missed something.

I would love a kind answer.

Thank You

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hello Boletus,

can´t tell you much about the habits of LiteOn at labeling their supplies....
- But the supply was equipped with regular ATX Powerplug with all pins connected to a wire and
at 18 was white cable and at the powerplug the - 5 Volt have been present.

The only difference to the description was, that instead of patching the wires external i instead
followed up the cables and soldered the original apple power cable at the LiteOn PCB
after the previous wire to the ATX plug was desoldered because i wanted a clean unmended cable
at the final solution. After the neeeded cables from the ATX-plug had been replaced by
the 6 Apple power cables - i desoldered the rest of the unneeded cables to avoid any kind of shortcuts.

If you like to play detective - view the very top picture i made in that days....
at the rear of the bundle of cables you can see very tiny part of the white former original cable
before it was removed / replaced by the blue cable ( that you can see in the bottom picture ).......

That´s a fact that i can confirm, because i performed the transition / moving of this supply from the original
case to the Apple supply case without any adding of additional hardware - i just needed to change wiring by
adapting the cables from ATX-plug to the common 6 pin Apple IIe power plug and making internal the bridge
between junctions of the former pin 14 and pin 15 of the ATX plug at the PCB.

sincerely
speedyG

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

How fortuitous that I found this thread just after my second Apple //e PSU blew up. (It was a troublesome capacitor both times; a rectangular 0.1 µF cap near the mains input.)

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

For what it's worth I found what was SpeedyG's page from a Google search, looked down at a atx ps I had, noticed uniform colored wires, grabbed a voltmeter, measured +/-, cut, stripped, crimped, booted my card-laidened IIe and was in business! Thx SpeedyG and the web!

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

What is the tolerance for the IIe's power supply voltages? I have several ATX power supplies that I am thinking of modding, but some of their voltages seem off (e.g. -11.67V on the -12V rail).

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hello KF5SDR,

limitations should remain within:
-12 Volt => - 11,5 V to - 12,4 V
- 5 Volt => - 4,7 V to - 5,2 V
+ 5 Volt => + 4,7 V to + 5,2 V
+ 12 Volt => + 11,5 V to + 12,4 V

remember that PC powersupplies are similar to Apple powersupplies
designed as switching powersupply and therefor require for reliable
measurements of voltage that these measurements are made with a
average load. I use for example as average load at least a old
3,5 " Hardddisk - this also draws current from +12 Volt rail.
Floppy isn't good because it turns off spinning.....

speedyG

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

speedyG wrote:
Hello Boletus,

In fact that supply did have the - 5 Volt availiable .....
It's a regular PC-ATX Powersupply - just at small size specially for very small "slimline" desktop cases...
So please don't state wrong facts.....

In old days there was something called "text"...
a bunch of alphabetic sign's that humans could "read"...... Wink

speedyG

To be honest, that's only partial correct... you are right telling that "your" used powersupply offers -5V but you didn't mention that this is an ATX 1.x powersupply. The ATX 2.x series typically doesn't support -5V any longer.

More to read here:
http://www.smps.us/power-connectors.html

and please also notice the ATX Powersupply Specification's.

http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx2_1.pdf

Telling (at your homepage) that in some cases the ATX Powersupply doesn't offer the -5V Rail is only half of the truth... because it clearly depends on the ATX Specification used by the Supplier. You are right telling that the white cable is an indicator... but taking a look at the shown picture of your used powersupply you must agree, that there isn't any -5V mentioned at the sticker... but the white cable can be seen partially at the left hand side. So this information is confusing if someone isn't really knowing the differences.

If the Powersupply uses a 20Pin Molex plug, Pin 18 offers -5V, while the new 24Pin Molex plugs are typically doesn't offer -5V (Pin 20 is normally reserved and not connected)

By what ever reason, LiteOn doesn't mentioned the -5V rail at the shown sticker... which seems to be common. It should be verified by the purchaser if the offered LiteOn PE-5221-08 has this white cable connected at Pin 18 of the 20Pin Molex plug. Even that you are showing a solution the get the -5V by building a small circuit, not everybody is able to do so.

Telling someone to read the text implicates, that the text takes care about the different aspects of the ATX specification's.
Sorry but this is not clearly done.

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hello tokabln,

i do agree partially.... in fact my reply was quite angry resulting from the smugle attitude in the first posting
from boletus "I don't understand..." and by the subliminaly accuse that my site doesn´t tell the truth....

at later posting boletus made a drawback from such accuse ( but first still insisting to the label from LiteOn
that in fact didn't show the correct specs.... ).....

nevertheless i did after that postings add immediatly to the page the part of correct critics, to mention about the
chance that some supplies don't offer the -5 volt rail
( that was allready mentioned in the previous version of that page in the text ! )
now a possible solution to solve that issue...

So far my reply to read the text was correct !

Just now a short feedback to your posting:
I do agree that in my page my contribution was limitted to the old ATX powersupplies with the 20 pin Molex.
I didn't treat the difference to the newer ATX-powersupplies with the 24 pin Molex at all
- this results from the fact that in basic this page was just a description of a modification
that i had made at end of the 90's and explaining that mod with the pictures i have made in that days.....

I didn't take thereafter any new pictures of the later ATX-powersupplies and
therefor they haven't been added to that page. Thats up to this point the status.....

So far explained it's good that you in detail added here with your posting additional explenations
to the difference between the old ATX-standard and the new ATX standard.

At the moment i've been more involved in updating the pages about the alpha syntauri system to get
that pages completed after 5 years hunting for good pictures of a missing interface and i´m still
working at the PCB software to create a better ( rather more close to the former original routing )
file for the PCB manufacturer, because i want to get up my alpha syntauri system running perfect....
with the temporary old replacemant interface - the result is working - but not very satisfying ... it seems
that my keyboard was rather more from the series with that later missing interface.... which is now
detected....

After your posting now i will probably extend that page in a few weeks and add new pictures and
additional info's about the later ATX powersupplies and problem ralated to that supplies in
relation to such a project.

besides bear also in mind - it's my hobby ... I'm not running this as a professional service....

sincerely
speedyG

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hi speedyG,

no worries... as you said... it's a hobby.

But one thing to mention... as I just had a discussion at ebay...

by what ever reason... LiteOn offered/offs the same powersupply with the same PN PE-5221-08 with a 20Pin Molex Connector but without the white cable... so Pin18 is not connected. I just purchased such a powersupply to check if the -5V are available inside. Will give an answer soon.

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Update:

Today I received the ordered PE-5221-08 Powersupply with the Serial Nbr. 00828790 and this too doesn't have any -5V rail. So everybody who is looking to get a replacement should probably looking to get one which is nearly to the serial numbering as shown at speedyG's webside. For sure you can add the suggested -5V regulator as shown at speedyG's webpage... but if you are not able to do such workaround I would recomment to find a powersupply with a lower serial then used by speedyG.

There is no difference seen at the used LiteOn sticker compared between the once I received today and the one shown at speedG's webpage, except the higher serial number which has also been seen by Boletus (see above picture serial).

So my believe is... if you find a PE-5221-08 powersupply with a serial lower then 00099930 you probably will get a power supply supporting -5V even if this is not stated at the LiteOn sticker... so ask the seller if there is a white cable attached at Pin 18 of the 20 Pin Molex connector and if yes... you have find such a powersupply.
.
Have fun...

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Well today i added a bit more information to the page related to the
currently available switching power supplies and extended information
about the points mentioned by tokabln.

This should solve the difference between the date when the mod has been
made back in end of 1990's and today in 2016 and the rssulting fact that
the standard at the ATX power supplies "in charge" in 2016 have changed
from V 1.0 to V 2.0 .

sincerely
speedyG

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Using normal everyday voltage regulators to get the -5v rail in this manner has always bothered me.

The need for capacitors and the need for a heat sink has also bothered me.

So I looked around very hard and I found this pdf file for something that in my opinion is a much better choice:

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/124c/0900766b8124c142.pdf

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Yes... the Tracos are an option... while the schematic shared by speedyG is still the same... as they are used as an replacement of old days voltage regulators.

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hello insanitor,

excellent point !
That stepdown converter is a perfect replacement for the entire PCB.
Thanks a lot for mentioning this!

sincerely
speedyG

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

speedyG wrote:
Hello insanitor,

excellent point !
That stepdown converter is a perfect replacement for the entire PCB.
Thanks a lot for mentioning this!

sincerely
speedyG

You're welcome.

My search has also turned up something on ebay the problem is that it's from a different country:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131380502462

This is a circuit that is pre built: easy to put together with an ATX PSU.

You can also simply hook it up to AC power by itself, since it has a bridge rectifier built in.

No schematics to follow, just connect everything, adjust the trimmer and you're done.

I am very good at finding things on the internet, the problem is that it's hard work.

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hi speedG,

I believe that your PCB should still used, because the Traco needs to be mounted... and the capacitors (and the diode) should still be used from my point of view.

So it shouldn't replace the PCB... just my 5 cents

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Re: IIe power supply recommendations?

Hello tokabln,

I'd guess the diode and the capacitors to be integrated inside the module....
I'd just recommend to pay attention to ensure that soldered wires are not stressed by pulling
to avoid breaking of the pins.... it even can just be soldered itself in the PCB, to go without
the population of the other parts to the PCB....

sincerely
speedyG

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