What the heck is up with this weird IIGS?

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What the heck is up with this weird IIGS?

Just saw this on eBay and.. it makes no sense. https://www.ebay.com/itm/125774565342?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=qXhsAtPpQCW&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=YQKtlshQRbK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

The guy has a W65C02S8P-10 installed in the CPU socket.. and claims it runs GS/OS..

 

Can you, in fact, drop in a static core 65C02 into a IIGS? Wouldn't the instruction set be completely off for IIGS software? Why would you do such a thing?

 

I've been working on IIGS's for 35 years but perhaps (and it's entirely likely) that I've missed a memo here, so if I have I'd love to gain some insight. 

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Well, he doesn't actually

Well, he doesn't actually CLAIM that it runs GS/OS. Just that the MD/T drive comes with it installed! And he doesn't show it booting GS/OS either.

And while he claims there's a 10MHz 65C02 installed, he doesn't mention anything about a faster clock, RAM, etc. Just shows it booting in under 2 seconds which is due to the MD/T and not anything he has done.

Then, of course, the pink elephant - without a 65816 it's not really a GS is it? And it is NOT going to run GS software.

Then there's the complete kludge of the power supply with the power cord running out through a port hole in the back. Presumably without any power switch either.

But of course, the seller is an EXPERT in Apple computers so we must believe his claims. And don't forget to give him positive feedback right away. So you'll have no recourse after you figure out what you really received.

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He does in fact seem to say

He does in fact seem to say it's overclocked...

 

"It has a BRAND NEW over clocked 10 Mhz Chip"

 

I thought maybe I had missed a cheap shortcut after just buying an AppleSqueezer.  

I mean, this guy seems to break his arm to pat himself on the back about what a IIGS expert he is and how this is THE BEST IIGS on EBay, so I figured I must have totally skipped out on some new discovery.   

Glad to know I'm not losing my mind.. yet...

 

And thanks Jeff! Didn't see it was you at first, but just wanted to give kudos to my RomXe/C/C+ which are all running like champs. :)

 

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Looking at his most recent

Looking at his most recent feedback, it looks like he sold another one with the proper CPU and the "Off - On - Booted" video is identical: click!

 

Not sure why he has decided to put a 65C02 on this one, when you can get e-scrap 65C816 from China for under $2.

 

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Will it even boot aith a

Will it even boot aith a W65C02S?

Is it a W65C02S?  Or is it a 65C816 and he doesn't know what he's doing.

Either way, this machine is not worth much.  He shows it booting into ProDOS 8 rather quickly.  I can't get mine to boot into ProDOS 8 that fast with a MicroDrive/Turbo, so is there any video post-production trickery going on?  IT's certainly worh less with a kludge power supply.

By "not worth much" it's worth no more than $100 plus the value of the used MicroDrive/Turbo (add another $75).

 

 

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And for $100 I'd even pick it

And for $100 I'd even pick it up and see what he's doing, but for $500?  No way.   

It does seem to boot ridiculously quick. I have a MD/T in my 16mhz ROM3 - and it's quick, but not that quick.

 

I sent in a few questions directly, and he hasn't responded. As it's just a paper label on the CPU, I'm skeptical.  Looking at the pin out, a W65C02s shouldn't even run in an unmodified IIGS board, but what modifications could make it do so are beyond me..

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Here is another one that he

Here is another one that he sold with an "upgraded" CPU: click!

He is using the exact same video for all of them. Please share if he responds to your questions.

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He just responded.  Managed

He just responded.  Managed to brag but disclaim all responsibility in a couple of sentences. Didn't answer anything in regards to my direct questions about a 65C02 in place of the 65C816 and the fact that it's a different instruction set and addressing scheme, and would still only run at 2.8 MHz.  He says directly thst it's faster than a Zip or Transwarp. I'm curious what's under that paper label. I'm leaning towards "a stock CPU.." My nonsense flags are now at full mast:

 

Edit: His ROM3 Sold for *$1199?!?!?*

His full response:

 

"Did you view the attached video?  runs all 256 megs of preloaded software including the GS/OS.  Got these at KansasFest 15 years ago.  Make of them what you will.  Have had Zip and Transwarp tested them side by....sold em, this configuration is faster." 

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The video doesn't really

The video doesn't really instill much faith in me. Booting bitsy bye from a micro drive turbo which has DMA? You don't need a lightning fast machine to do that in a couple seconds IMHO. 

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hmm

I also wondered about the $1199 price; certainly raises eyebrows, along with the 1 feedback buyer and so many "private listings". I can't really be sure what is going on, but it would behoove any collector to be cautious. "If it looks too good to be true" etc.

 

P.S. there was a paper label over the CPU chip? Who does that?

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Overclocked DIP40

Haha, the paper sticker on the CPU (!) is just hilarious. "W65C02S8P1065C02 10MHzMPU DIP40 D18". Glad he copy & pasted the "DIP40", too. Probably doesn't even know what it means. Just that the "P10" indicates an "overclocked CPU"... :-))

I wonder if he also sanded the actual CPU label below - in case anyone removed the sticker.

This offer has more red flags than any Soviet parade ever had...

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That's like a hundred

That's like a hundred different red flags, I would report the item as fraudulent.

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It's not fraudulent, it's

It's not fraudulent, it's just overpriced by a factor greater than 2. The vast majority of non-auction listings on eBay fall under this category and that applies to the other items he is selling as well.

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If it's not running at 10MHz,

If it's not running at 10MHz, and it's not a IIgs running a 65C02, then his claims are false, and both of those seem to be impossible. I'd be surprised if the feedback demands aren't against TOS as well (though TBF ebay doesn't really seem to care about those)

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The computer is an Apple IIgs

The computer is an Apple IIgs, because for between $2 to $12 anyone can put a 65C816 processor. Would it not be an Apple IIgs if the processor was missing completely? Besides the sticker says exactly what the processor is. This is how anyone who knows anything about Apple IIgs would see it: an overpriced Apple IIgs that needs a new CPU.

 

But I don't think this guy is a fraudster. He just doesn’t know what he is doing. He probably bought a W65C02S8P-10 processor, which can run at a maximum frequency of 10 MHz, put it in the socket and now he thinks that the machine is overclocked at 10 MHz. In the Apple IIgs the original 65C816 processor always boots into 65C02 emulation mode, but then it can go into native mode. With this processor it just stays a 65C02.

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CVT wrote:The computer is an
CVT wrote:

The computer is an Apple IIgs, because for between $2 to $12 anyone can put a 65C816 processor. Would it not be an Apple IIgs if the processor was missing completely? Besides the sticker says exactly what the processor is. This is how anyone who knows anything about Apple IIgs would see it: an overpriced Apple IIgs that

 

 

 Actually I'd highly suspect this to be pretty close to the truth.  Most people under 50 who didn't grow up with the Apple II, but were raised on x86 PC clone hardware probably have little to no clue how a machine like a IIgs works...

 

What seems potentially fraudulent is claims that it will run GS/OS if there is a 65C02 in the socket...  because I can't see how that could possibly be true.  I'd guess he is basing that claim on that he did once run all that stuff...  before he did the goofy CPU swap.

 

 

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Sometimes people can deceive

Sometimes people can deceive themselves.

Some time back a guy replaced the processor in a ZipGS with a faster one and was raving about how much faster the IIgs was. I almost hated to tell him that since he hadn’t changed the oscillator then the speed hadn’t changed

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 CVT wrote:But I don't think

 

CVT wrote:

But I don't think this guy is a fraudster. He just doesn’t know what he is doing.

I would tend to agree. But in fact, he goes to great lengths to profess his "experience with Apple ... over 35 years" and being "widely known" and knowing "what buyers need and want to know to make an intelligent bid," etc. So it's hard to just say he doesn't know what he's selling. Might not be fraud per se but he definitely needs some schooling in what he's pitching. Unfortunately, when confronted about his misstatements, he just gets defensive:

You did watch the video right? It runs all the 256 megs of software listed including the GS/OS.....who else on ebay shows a video of the IIGS loading? nobody. Who else guarantees it for a year? zilch. Who else has sold several of the systems and has the system with feedback listed for you to see? I am constantly amazed at the folks who ask the obvious without researching through the closed listings to read the feedback. hmmmm Takes a lot more than a 65C02!

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Same spiel he gave me. I shot

Same spiel he gave me. I shot back that I can do the same trick with Bitsy Bye on a //e with a $25 ROM card, and that doesn't make it the Fastest IIGS this side of the Pecos - or even a IIGS at all - but he didn't respond. 

 

I mean, it seems he doesn't even take a moment to consider that he might be wrong. He could be so amazingly confident that he doesn't even check what chip is under the paper label, or check himself if GS/OS loads.  

I would be curious as to how he handles his "guarantee" if this is how he handles a pre-sales question.  Would probably make "you're holding it wrong" come off as reasonable and thorough.   

Either way, eBay won't care. They barely remove listings that are blatantly illegal - don't even try explaining to them what a 65C816 is.  

I am impressed at this fella's hubris, though.  Just goes to show that finding old A2 hardware isn't like it used to be.  I've got plenty of machines, but I run through eBay now and then to see the "state of the market."  Looks like it's getting... interesting. 

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CT100 wrote:...I am impressed
CT100 wrote:

...

I am impressed at this fella's hubris, though.

...

 

Yeah, good luck convincing a 70-year old fella that he is wrong: click! :)

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I considered offering $50

I considered offering $50 just to make a point, but clearly none of us are getting though to him.

 

I do think is borders on fraudulent at this point. Barf. 

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It hasn't sold, and I think

It hasn't sold, and I think most people won't fall for it.

Let's reconvene in a week...it will probably still be for sale.

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Crooked IIgs Stencil too

Hi All,

I actually found this site trying to work out what overclocking method was used by this ebay seller. Looks like there wasn't one based on this discussion! LoL. Glad I didn't make an offer. Also noted that the 'respray' or 'retrobright' might have gone wrong ... he seems to have placed a new Apple IIgs stencil on that is crooked / not level ... hmm

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azure78 wrote:Hi All,I
azure78 wrote:

Hi All,

I actually found this site trying to work out what overclocking method was used by this ebay seller. Looks like there wasn't one based on this discussion! LoL. Glad I didn't make an offer. Also noted that the 'respray' or 'retrobright' might have gone wrong ... he seems to have placed a new Apple IIgs stencil on that is crooked / not level ... hmm

 

Yes...  you are far better off to find a IIgs that hasn't been messed with and then go with one of the tried and true accelleration methods (Transwarp GS or clone or ZipGS) or the newer Apple Squeezer.

 

IIgs aren't that expensive...  the vintage accellerators are, but much more likely to work as advertised.

 

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He started an auction

He started an auction at $0.99: https://www.ebay.com/itm/125881826881

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IIGS $0.99
CVT wrote:

He started an auction at $0.99: https://www.ebay.com/itm/125881826881

Yeah I saw that auction when I was looking around eBay a few days ago. When I saw it the price was at $25, now it's up to $51 and still has a week to go. I'm watching it just to see where it fianlly ends at, since it is just the computer itself.

 

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