What's the best Video solution for a Vintage Apple IIe in 2025
Continuing our series on using an Apple IIe in 2025, today we are getting video working. Do we use a vintage monitor to get that authentic CRT look? Or do we use a modern flat screen? Another option is to use a modern Apple II video card. Yes, we can even use HDMI! Watch on to see the options you can use to rock 1977 hardware in 2025 and onwards!
The Sony monitor pictured in the video has other inputs that can work with an Apple II, so they are worth mentioning for their various tradeoffs:
Monitor w three inputs.png
I mostly use an A2VGA with HDMI adapter these days. On a couple machines I use a composite to HDMI adapter. I have several vintage monitors but I don't use them nearly as much anymore.
Thanks for the extra info on the PVM. Before the BNC adapter turned up I DID try connecting to the B-Y, as on the front of the monitor there is a switch labelled BLUE ONLY. I had assumed it was to boost the Blue signal to compensate for the removed R+G. I did not have the correct connector though, so could not get it to connect well. I DO that the connector now, so I will give these a try. Sadly, I do not have the cable to try the Y/C connection, as that would be the most practical.
That would probably not work as the monitor is looking for sync on the Green channel. The BLUE ONLY switch is used for setting up the monitor controls.
That's a shame, since the Y/C connection provides the best pixel detail and nearest compatibility. Here's an example of an inexpensive S-Video breakout cable that will make the connection...
IMG_1325.JPG
And here's a sample of the video quality through that S-Video adapter on a Toshiba combination TV/DVD Player. Monochrome, but the image is so sharp that it renders 14MHz pixels perfectly. (If you feed the Apple video into both the Y and C channels, then the pixels will be just as sharp...but also colored.)
IMG_1323.JPG
PS: This S-Video breakout cable works great with a $20 S-Video to HDMI converter, for those who don't have Y/C or S-Video inputs. (That's the setup I use for recording Apple video output with an HDMI capture device.)
I have a pretty massive box full of Phono cables of various types, RGB phono to scart etc. I'll check it and see if I have one of these, dont think I do as I did not use S-VHS cables back in the 90s/2000s. If not, looks like its another cable to get :)
I am a huge fan of using CRTs in retro computers. I believe a CRT makes even an emulator look like the real thing, while a modern LCD/LED makes a real Apple II look like an emulator.
TotalReplayJVC.JPG
But if it has to be the latter, then it definitely needs to be able to simulate TV lines, like some of the modern VGA/HDMI cards:
Zoom.JPG
I would imagine that as these SOC systems get more powerful over time, that eventually their CRT emulation will get pretty close to perfect. For this to happen they have to really render at 2K and then you need some fancy filters to completely emulate how the signal would appear on a real CRT. That ball started with scanline emulation, but there is a lot more than that. Depending on the screen type, you have the colour cell patterns and so on, as well as how for example fringing appears on an NTSC TV. But for now its mainly scanlines, whilst the VidHD does have scanlines + its NTSC/PAL mode which emulates these artifacts and also the A2DVI does this as well. So its a matter of time maybe until near perfect monitor emulation will be a thing.
BTW, I have done an audit of my PVM collection, and it appears I have more than I thought.
I have two 9" models, as seen in my video. The image on both of these is pretty decent and they are very portable.
I have 1x 14" model, which is pretty nifty as it as 3 inputs. 2 Composite and a 3rd as SVHS. This one also has a setup menu and seems a LOT more capable.
The only problem is, this one does not work fully, as its image is quite washed out. I am investigating probable causes for this.
And finally I have 1x 6" model, which sadly does not even power up. Im assuming its a blown fuse, though of course the falt may run a lot deeper than this, hard to tell.
I think old computers should be used in the same context as they were originally used. Therefore, I don't really see the point in new display options such as VGA/HDMI. I use CRT monitors, if available in the original, and I completely agree with @CVT (see above post #8)
Cost can be a hurdle. For my Amiga 500, 2000, 4000 and CD32 I have one 1084s monitor, and about 9 months back it emitted a horrible whine and is now dead. Its literally deadly to repair, or it might cost me £200 to get it repaired. Or I can for example get a HDMI solution in each machine and use 2nd hand monitors that cost £27 a pop.
The downside is, you sometimes get too perfect a rendition, pixel perfect as it were. So ideally in the future you'd be able to choose to have monitor emulation as well (scanlines, blurring, artifacting, shadow masks etc) or pixel perfect.
I like CRTs but for me a LCD is sometimes useful.
I have two spots where I use Apple IIs. The one spot with the CRT is mostly for testing and troubleshooting. But it’s also where I can’t keep a computer set up full time.
The other spot I alternate between a IIe and a IIgs but the monitor needs to be over 2 meters away from me. So I use a 20” 4:3 LCD with VGA and HDMI. I have a VGA option on my Ramworks and with the IIgs a scart to HDMI adapter. Anything smaller than 20” would be harder to read at that distance.
I'm going to be contrarian as far as vintage vs. modern HDMI solutions. While I understnd the nostalgia for CRTs to some extent, honestly, back in the day I'd have killed for something with the picture quality that I get form the A2VGA+HDMI solutions I mostly use today. And these days, especially with HDMI switchboxes, it's just too convenient.
I also understand the argument for using CRTs. I have about 12 systems in my cabin, running from an Atari 800 XL, C64, IBM 5150, through to Atari ST, various AMIGA and right on up to a 2006 Windows XP machine. Each of these "looks the part" with a real CRT monitor perched behind/on top of them. I mean, IF I couild I would have each with their own working CRT monitor, then systems look "complete".Sadly, getting some of these CRTs over here in the UK is VERY hard, for example, original Apple II and IIgs monitors are like dragon teeth. And importing these from overseas is NOT going to happen. So... whats else can I do? Well, I do have an interesting solution in mind, but the obvious one is to use easily available VGA, DVI and HDMI monitors. But its true, they really dont look right, but they DO work and are easily available, Especially HDMI.
As I said above, I DO own a real 1084s (and love it) and an original IBM CGA monitor, as well as numerous PVMs and a DELL VGA etc. The 1084s is down with a dead flyback. The IBM monitor I went to pickup working and it was dead when demoed to me. The DELL VGA flickers BADLY, a Macintosh RGB monitor I have flickers on occasion, one of my PVM has no power, and my largest PVM a 14" model has washed out black and no colour. Yep, there is DEFINATELY a need for a replacement for CRTs. Their days are numbered and keeping them alive is expensive, and more importantly, DANGEROUS (or Id repair them myself).
First this is just an opinion not right or wrong.
When I work on my systems I want convenient so I try to go with a flat screen. It's attached to the wall and out of the way. I have a TV9099 terminal that can use that flat screen so I cover a lot of bases as I have systems that a require terminal.
But if it has a monitor that I have then it will need to be tested with that monitor. I have a nice Commodore 1802 and I'm working on a Sanyo 9". I have a really nice Sony Multisync but at 21" that kills my bench space.
I think the same way for things like disk drives and Floppies. I'll use the emulation as much as possible so I don't wear them out. If I'm exhibiting I bring both emulation and real drives. Folks love hands on so I'll try to keep as much a possible to be historically correct. But these old systems (ex: cassette tape drives) are very temperamental. Moving them doesn't make them any less temperamental. For exhibiting working is sometimes more important that fully accurate.
I have a lot of reproductions as well as unusual vintage systems so I go with the mix. I learned an important lesson with the 3 Apple I reproductions, I can't afford historically accurate.
In post #15, "Chris T" wrote:
" Yep, there is DEFINITELY a need for a replacement for CRTs. Their days are numbered and keeping them alive is expensive, and more importantly, DANGEROUS (or Id repair them myself). "
Uncle Bernie comments:
I disagree. For the true "vintage" experience - how that was in look & feel & sound back in the glorious 1970s - you need a CRT based monitor, among other devices, such as vintage cassette recorders, vintage keyboards, and the like.
I do not want to indulge here in the latter devices, as this thread is about "best video solutions for the Apple IIe".
Here is the dirty little secret from a TV industry insider ... me. I did lead the mixed signal design team of a major semiconductor company which designed the mixed signal blocks for the last generation - ever - of ICs for CRT based TVs. That was in the mid to late 1990s. The writing already was on the wall - everybody knew that CRTs will go the way of the dinosaur. But at that time, LCD panels still had poor performance in terms of response time (there was a "smear" effect for moving objects caused by the liquid crystals not being able to change state quickly enough). LCD sizes and resolutions also were still limited. High resolution, large LCD display panels were still not competitive in price with top notch CRTs. But everybody in the industry knew that LCD displays would become better and better and that CRTs would eventually die out. So the TV manufacturers sought to bridge that "gap" with high performance CRT based products. These CRTs were the best of the best possible. Heavy. Power hungry. But they had a picture quality which LCD or OLED based flat panels would only achieve 20 years later. That was the "gap". (We now are past the "gap", and CRTs are dead, not even being produced anymore).
Now, during that development effort something weird was found: we had sophisticated digital signal processing for all the filters and color decoders (and the mixed signal parts were just video ADCs, video DACs, and PLLs making the 200+ Mhz clocks for all that digital trickery). It all worked and looked fine with typical TV broadcast signals or VHS tape recordings, or the just released early DVDs. But all video game consoles had an atrocious, unacceptable picture quality. Management saw that and said "we can't sell that - owners of game consoles would complain".
We analyzed the problem and found out that, first, the video signals of these game consoles were not conforming to PAL and NTSC standards. So what came out of our sophisticated digital "comb filters" was looking terrible. Secondly, we found out that the designers of these games had carefully fine-tuned their color palettes such that a certain "color blending" effects present only in pure analog color decoders with their analog filters were smoothing out the features of these picture elements of the game, so it just looked nice. These clever game designers had used a dirt effect of analog TV circuitry to actually improve the perceived quality of their little game figures running around on the screen. While our super sophisticated digital filters (running on high powered custom DSP blocks) made the edges crisp and avoided "smear" and "blending" and this made these little game figures look pixelated and terrible - like you would see if you run Apple II emulators which faithfully reproduce the actual pixels and their colors on a modern flat screen display. It just looks terrible. But it is precise !
So what was our solution ? The digital design team just whipped together a truly cr@ppy color decoder which reproduced the Q factor of the analog filters and the bandwidth limitations and distortions of analog mixers. They would detect when a game console was attached by the violations of the NTSC and PAL standards. And then switch the super sophisticated color decoder off and switch the cr@ppy one in. And bingo - we got a more blurred picture which just looked great (for the games).
Now, here is the conclusion. You can't get these important "dirt effects" from any modern 21st Century flat panel display. And the only way to get these dirt effects as they were back in the day is to buy a truly analog TV monitor with NO digital color decoders inside (other than TVs using our chip sets, but these TVs are probably all in a landfill now, ~25-30 years later).
And you best bet is to buy used professional grade NTSC or PAL color monitors which once were used in TV studios. The reason is that these used much better quality electronic components and printed circuit boards than the typical consumer grade cr@p did. For instance, the higher end professional monitors use FR-4 (glass fiber / epoxy) PCBs while the consumer cr@p uses phenolic PCBs which, after 20 + years, are brittle and develop hair line cracks.
Avoid monitors for which you can't find service manuals online, or those which were used in security camera applications - color is not so common here, as most used B & W, but the issue with static pictures is burned-in image shadows on the screen. These can't be fixed. Avoid !
Good specimen of these color (and B&W) video monitors are still out there, and you can typically buy them for cheap. I recently scored two NTSC color monitors, rack mounted, for less than $100 including shipping, and they are awesome.
Get 'em as long as you can. The "danger" can be mitigated by throughly inspecting and cleaning them inside, and, if needed, replacing old electrolytic capacitors.
- Uncle Bernie
In the future? As far as I know this is already available. You are just not looking hard enough.
My solution, A2VGA Pico IIe, (shameless plug) already does all that (ok not the shadow masks) and it has been out for over a year. CRT emulation (or emulator type display if that is your preference), high colour range, optimised to not stress out the controller, simplistic hardware design, software controlled Colour/Monochrome swapping (great for stuff like A2Desktop), doesn't take up 50Pin slot and is inexpensive. HDMI version is working, just not released yet. Over time I document/release my workings so features can end up in other products.
This is just one example of many great modern video solutions. Some nice FPGA based ones and streaming solutions are popping up. The "Best" will come down to personal preference. It will depend on you taste, memory, budget, access to resources (not everyone lives in a place with plenty of available CRTs), Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder level for exactness to CTRs and expected features. There are modern video cards with more features than a Swiss Army Knife.
As for my opinion and that is all it is because how do you quantify "Best"? There is nothing as good as a CRT display (be that via composite, RGB or other). Especially for a fixed location setup. It's not just the picture quality that matters. I've found that monitor lag is not terrible but not great either. This is normally not the fault of the video card but digital monitors in general. Sometimes a combination of both. You might think you are getting old by not getting that high score on your favour game anymore, but it might just be the lag holding you back. I personally like VGA monitor solutions because I'm lucky to still have plenty of them about, they hit a sweet spot in terms of the data throughput/processing power and you still get a bit of that analog look coming through (for monitors that have reasonable analog to digital internals). It's the pixel clock that is the most critical factor ie the data throughput. For VGA monitors capable of doing 1080p (1920x1080x60) you are talking about a pixel clock of around 154MHz which is doable for some modern-day hobby grade controllers but to do the same in a digital system (DVI/HDMI) requires a pixel clock in the range of 1.54GHz. I chose the 1080p resolution as the example because that gives you one Apple IIe pixel (560x192) to three monitor pixels. One Apple IIe pixel looks like an oval in a form of a gaussian spread on a CRT screen. To emulate that using just three pixels on a LCD monitor is not going to be great. Higher resolutions are going to require a much larger throughput speed and a faster processer at the expense of extra lag. I don't see it being very practical even if inexpensive processors start coming out with large number of IO and super-fast parallel to serial converters. The best bit is that none of this future "high tech" stuff is required. Looking at a 10 inch screen at one meter away, I can't tell much of a difference between a 640x480x60 emulated image and a 1920x1080x60 emulated image. This means that resolution isn't as critical as you might think. For example, you can do a lot to improve an image using other factors such as a large colour range. We can get damn good results with the technology we currently have. My 2 cents.
Cheers,
Alex.
That does look nice. The AUX slot piggy back setup so it doesn't need to use another slot is a nice touch.
Thanks for the input Lukazi...
My point is, with these SOC that become more powerful, with more cores over time, there is more scope for a card to do more in terms of emulating REAL CRT analogue effects. I understand that VGA is a good compromise, for NOW, but not for all. VGA monitors will age, just as 80s CRTs do, and tubes WILL burn out eventually. Also, cost is an issue.
At the same time, HMDI monitors are easily available, at VERY cheap prices, once old 4K OLED monitors start being sold off, well, you will have a plethora of options with amazing visual quality available as silly prices.
I was looking at the VidHD, it makes use of an Orange Pi, with 4 cores, and it appears its extra grunt, over a Pi Pico, has allowed it to also handle IIgs modes, not just Apple II originals. It outputs a pure 1920x1080 signal as well, which is more practical for screen capture etc. I wonder, now we are 6 years down the road from THAT cards release, what other SOC boards might be pulled in to make these DVI/HDMI/VGA cards? I note with the A2DVI for example, that its scanline emulation is pretty crude. I have two of these arriving today, so I will be able to check this out in person. But I beleive it shows one black line, per colour line, which is NOT how scanlines appear on a real monitor. Still, its better than nothing, for some cases. But I wonder, with 4K, and a grunty enough SOC, would you be able to emulate correctly displayed eliptical pixes, with scanlines with the correct, or 90%+ correct ratios?Ideally, as well, future cards will have profiles that can be switched between easily using key combos, for example, on an Apple II, pressing say Shift+Apple+Number would switch modes. One mode might have no filtering, for hard edged pixels, and other could be all analogue effects, for gaming or other high fidelity graphics situations?
Agree 100 per cent. I tend to keep my //e running all the time, logged into my main email account through my ISP's Unix shell (using the ESP32 Softcard). I can see new emails at a glance. My //e has the Reactivemicro replacement power supply upgrade and an LCD monitor using a composite to HDMI adapter. I would NOT feel comfortable or safe leaving the system running with either the original power supply OR a 40-year old CRT.
In post #21, "mreg376" wrote:
" I would NOT feel comfortable or safe leaving the system running with either the original power supply OR a 40-year old CRT ... "
Uncle Bernie comments:
True that. It is prudent to turn off all old CRT based monitors when they are not under adult supervision. And the power supplies of old computers also are suspect and should be replaced, especially if they are switchmode power supplies - do not attempt to "refurbish" old Apple II switchmode power supplies with new electrolytics ... because you might pick the wrong ones not suited for switchmode applications. I have published a way to put a modern switchmode power supply into the metal shell of an Apple II power supply here in this forum a while ago. Also, watch out for old electrolytics on the motherboards, these may also fail in spectacular ways (exploding / spitting their "guts" all over the place, and the aluminum foil shreds making further short circuits). But the absolute worst offenders / risks are aged solid tantalum capacitors (these yellow little things). If these sit on a power supply rail that is sufficiently powerful, they have a very dangerous failure mode where the "pill" in them glows in incandescent white and this is hot enough to even set FR-4 PCBs on fire (their flame retardents, if present, fail at these high temperatures). I've inspected all my electronics for these tantalums and if present, I never let these (mostly instruments) powered on when leaving the lab. Alas, it is not really viable to replace all of those as a preventive measure ... some instruments have hundreds of them inside.
- Uncle Bernie
The ReActive Micro power supply and upgrade kit are good products. But I can attest that Uncle Bernie's method of using a Mean Well PT-65B board to replace the guts of an original Apple power supply works well for 1/2 the money. I've done a modified version of his conversion several times with great results.
The Mean Well RPT-60B is another very good option that is even more compact: https://www.applefritter.com/content/12v-power-supply-conversion-using-mean-well-rpt-60b
I never used it in an Apple II myself, as all three of my Apple II machines are working perfectly with their original PSUs, but I used it to make this sweet PSU for my Amiga 500, which came without one:
Amiga 500 PSU.jpg
I'm actually more excited about SOCs that are less powerful but provide a better architecture for the job at hand. I think you are looking at outdated technology.
The A2DVI is based on an old PI Pico microcontroller which uses software to do DVI. This wastes a lot of resources, limits the colour range and along with the inefficient video library, the existing project needs to be overclocked by about 100% just to make it work. However, more powerful processing is not required, just hardware and software optimisation. Once you optimise the software it leaves plenty of resources to do really nice CRT emulation. The Pi Pico2 (being the hardware optimised side) can run OpenEmulator quality CRT emulation (https://zellyn.com/apple2shader/) without having to thrash the crap out of the microcontroller. OpenEmulator emulates REAL CRT analogue effects. What CRT emulation quality do you believe can't be done at the moment ie requires more processing power? I'm not trying to be smart. I'm working towards raising the bar. There are alternate ways in making things better than just throwing more processing power at the problem. There are always tarde offs. More processing power can result in extra lag and extra heat.
If anyone knows of a CRT emulation model that is better than the OpenEmulator then please let me know because I'm more than happy to try it out.
The Raspberry PI's new PR2350B microcontroller.
This microcontroller has only recently been released so in a hobby environment it will still take a few months or even years to incorporate into new projects.
That one is an option, but when I look on Amazon or the other US suppliers for some reason the PT-65B is usually a couple bucks less expensive. And since it is already small enough that it easily fits inside the Apple power supply shell it's good enough. If I needed something just a little smaller then the RPT-60B would be worth paying a couple bucks more.
They are the same price. Any variations of a few dollars are due to different suppliers. Comparing them on AliExpress with the free shipping option on, it's actually the RPT-60B that is cheaper by a couple of bucks, but that could be due to the fact that it's smaller and lighter.
With tarrifs right now from the US, it is less of a hassle to order from Amazon that Aliexpress. When I checked the prices earlier there what I found was the RPT-60B was usually a couple bucks more expensive, but that's really not much. Either one will work. I've just always used the PT-65B so far and don't have any reason to change. I'm not sure which one has higher output, but even that probably doesn't matter a lot. The PT-65B is rated more than the original power supplies.
When it comes to power they are both enough for any Apple II. On each rail the PT-65B is rated for 5.5A, 2.5A and 0.5A, while the RPT-60B is rated for 4A, 2A and 0.5A. Both are higher than the original PSU. With all things being equal, the RPT-60B would be slightly more efficient and thus it would produce slightly less heat.
Oh I am definately looking at outdate tech. I am only skim reading this subject, no expertise in it at all. I was just wondering aloud, I guess, more than anything WHY there appears still to be no replacement for the IIgs in terms of HDMI,
Reading through your website, I must say, it IS very interesting, the work you have been doing. I'll be in touch...
One of the best HDMI solutions for the IIgs is the Applesqueezer, it is an accellerator that provides HDMI output that supports the IIgs specific video modes and it does not use a slot. It also provides 14MB RAM. The only real downside to it is that it does not work with cards that use DMA like the MicroDrive Turbo.
Hello,
I'm using the A2FPGA for HDMI output on my IIGs. Expensive but it supports all the graphics modes and looks great. You can also use it for a mockingboard at the same time. It's over at reactivemicro.con for sale.
Have it in my IIe platinum at the moment because I wanted to play Ultima IV with the mockingboard on an old 55" Panasonic plasma screen (working on some IIGS repairs at the moment). Amazing my original disks still work!
I have acquired over the last years sufficient number of CRTs (SONY PVMs, JVC TMs, A2M6014s) these were unaffordable and unobtaibable to me back then -- they are sufficient for a number of lives in order not to bother with "LCD"'s incarnations with delayed framebuffers and ARMs of all sorts around them. In addition when I hear about the overpriced reactvemicro brand, I am keeping greater separation than required away from a Heavy/Super airplane ;)
I'm happy with the things I've bought there and glad to have the option considering the few vendors that are available for vintage Apple II.
Best,
A