128MB ATI Radeon 7000 pci?

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Hokusai's picture
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128MB ATI Radeon 7000 pci?

Well, look at this: http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=6860&Item=ATI100436011. It appears to be an official Radeon 7000 Mac Edition pci card with 128MBs. I hope this wasn't the video card that they were showing at MacWorld. Seems kind of a dissappointment. I know my B&W G3 is quite old, but still. Something more than a Radeon 7000 with more memory tacked on.

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Hmm...

Sorry for the double post. I was trying to figure out how I was suppose to edit my post and I double posted instead. Hmm...

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Re: Hmm...

Sorry for the double post. I was trying to figure out how I was suppose to edit my post and I double posted instead. Hmm...

you cant edit your posts Wink

i have deleted the other thread ...

TOM

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Hmm...

Hmm. It turns out this is actually a Radeon 9200 Mac Edition. Oooo. Ahhhhh. Maybe not exciting for some. Its good news to people like me with Blue & White G3s.

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is that 9200 PCI? if so, my B

is that 9200 PCI? if so, my B&W could use one too. Smile

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could i just flash a normal radeon 9200 pci?

couldn't i just flash a normal radeon 9200? cause someone i know was going to sell me the pc edition for $15 but i didnt buy it because i didnt know if you could flash it(i know its n00bish) :mac:

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Hmm...

Yes, it is a ATI Radeon 9200 128MB Mac Edition PCI card for PCI macs. As for flashing, people so far have only been able to flash the Radeon 9100. Even after flashing, I've heard the cards still have problems.

The Radeon 7000 with 128MBs at OWC must have been a typo on their part. MacMall has it as the Radeon 9200.

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Mac 9200 ROM?

Since it has yet to be released, I'm not aware of an available Mac 9200 ROM. However when a Mac 9200 PCI hits the streets someone will surely extract and post. Heck, I'd be willing to buy and extract once the Mac version ships.

PC versions of cards labeled as Radeon 9200 cost a little more (~US$90) than those called 9200SE which goes for ~US$65 and I don't know the diff . . .

I'm curious to learn more about the Mac 9200 PCI, anyone know more or where to find some details?

In any case, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out, considering ATI's previous battles against PC->Mac flashing.

Dan K

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Hmm...

I'm suprised the preorder price for them isn't horribly overpriced when compared to the PC version. $30 is bad but not too bad.

As for the 9200 versus the 9200SE, I'm pretty sure the 9200SE is slower than the regular 9200.

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So let me get this straight,

So let me get this straight, the 9200 is going to be the new high end pci video card for the old pre-agp model macs?

Does anyone have any clue (i know its not out yet) as to the performance difference between the 9200 and the 7000pci?

I'm mainly wondering if the slowness of the aqua gui is due to the fact that the 7000 is a slow card or if its all due to the bottleneck of the pci port?

This card could really give new life to our old aging beiges and upgraded pre-beiges if the card really puts out.

Actually I wonder how it would compare to the Radeon Mac Edition card too.

I know, I know, I'm jumping the gun, but this is exciting news for po' folk like me who can't afford a decent agp mac.

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With PCI being what it is, I

With PCI being what it is, I wouldn't expect too much of a performance jump, really. I suppose you might notice some faster refreshes and framerates to a point, but PCI really bottlenecks video bandwidth.

As to the slowness of the Aqua GUI, I think it depends more upon video RAM than video processing. Aqua buffers all of the windows in memory so that it can composite them faster. That adds up to a lot of pixels being kept in memory, even when compressed. I think when your video card runs out of memory, it spills over to regular RAM, but if that's being taken up by programs, then it'll be swapped to the hard drive. Hard drives will kill ya every time...

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PCI = Bleah

For day-to-day operations the Radeon 7000 in my G4-upgraded B&W feels no faster then the Rage 128 it came with. I seriously doubt *any* video card would do much better, tell the truth.

The simple truth is that without "Quartz Extreme" you're pretty much using your video card as a 2D framebuffer, and in that situation it's all about fill rates. And when you're dealing with PCI, fill rates are going to be constrained by the bus.

A more powerful GPU will be faster when playing 3D games, but most 3D games at this point are seriously CPU-bound, not GPU-bound, when played on older Macs, even with CPU upgrades. (Due to their sluggish memory busses and whatnot.) Don't expect miracles. A $200 PC white box with a rotgut GeForce (or Radeon) card will run rings around *any* upgraded B&W if games are what you want.

(The Athlon which shares a USB KVM with my B&W has less charm, but it's close to an order of magnitude faster. Amazing the difference having a 4x AGP slot makes.)

--Peace

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Hmm...

Ughh. First it was going to be released on June 10th. Then it was June 16th. Now, according to the date on Other World Computing, it's July 7th. Blum 3

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Rage 128 really pokey!

This isn't all relevent to this discussion, but the PCI card comparisons ought to be useful.

I recently tested several cards in G-Macs B+W, Sawtooth and Quicksilver using Quake 3 Arena's timedemo (Demo01.) Admittedly it's not the best test around, but it's all I've got on hand.

As you can see the pokey old AGP card was considerably faster than the same chipset PCI card. Processor and bus speeds are the same, so even though I'm comparing G3 vs. G4, Q3A doesn't use any G4-specific functions anyway. Note the Radeons tested are much faster than either Rage 128 cards.

some results (same HD/SW/OS 9.2.2/etc. used throughout BTW):

B+W G3/400/1mb/1024MB/PCI-66 slot
     Rage 128 PCI 16mb
          17fps @ full.640x
     Radeon Mac Edition PCI 32mb
          32fps @ full.1152x
          36fps @ medium.640x

     Radeon in PCI-33 slot
          27fps @ full.1152x
          36fps @ full.640x

Sawtooth G4/400/1MB/256mb
     Rage 128 AGP 16mb
          10fps @ full.1024x
          26fps @ full.640x
          41fps @ min.640x
     Radeon Mac Edition PCI 32mb
          32fps @ full.1152x
          32fps @ full.1024x
          40fps @ full.640x
     Radeon 7000 PCI 64MB (flashed PC card)
          22fps @ full.1024x
          38fps @ full.640x
          43fps @ min.640x

FYI, here's what a GeForce 3 (flashed PC card) did in the Sawtooth:
     GeForce3 AGP 64mb
          42fps @ full.1280x
          42fps @ full.1152x
          47fps @ full.640x

and in my Quicksilver G4/800/256k/1GB:
     GeForce3 AGP 64mb
          63fps @ full.1280x
          65fps @ full.1152x
          65fps @ full.1024x
          66fps @ full.640x
          73fps @ min.640x

Dan K

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The figures for the flashed P

The figures for the flashed PC Radeon are a bit disappointing, considering it's got twice as much memory as the Radeon Mac. Perhaps the release of the new card will drive down the price of second-hand Mac editions. We can but hope.

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Hmm...

Check this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25449&item=5104059492&rd=1
I wondered how long it was going to be before someone tried to sell one of these flashed Radeon 9100s on eBay.

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This guy? He's been hogging a

This guy? He's been hogging all the used PC cards on eBay--mostly GeForce 3s and Radeon 7000s, flash them with Mac ROMs and auction them at $30 profit.

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Diff between 9200 and 9200 SE

The 9200SE has half the datapath width of the 9200. If the 9200 has a 128-bit wide path to memory, the 9200SE would be 64-bit.

Now I'm not sure exactly how wide the 9200's actual data path to memory is, but this is what I have heard from my brother, who is a manager of a PC computer store and pretty knowledgable about PC hardware.

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Hmm...

Has anyone on this forum gotten the Radeon 9200 Mac Edition for their mac yet. If so, what are your comments on it?

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the 7000 is only a 3D acceler

the 7000 is only a 3D accelerator, no 2d acceleration. Thats why scrolling is bad.

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Radeom 9200 Arrived - Don't hold breath

I picked up my Radeon PCI 9200 this past week at TekServe in New York. Boy am I p'd off! I have a G3 Beige MiniTower 333MHz that is pretty much stock, except for a maxed out ram upgrade.

The box says it works "with all G3, G4 and G5 Macs, running either OS 9.2.2, 10.2.8 or 10.3.3 and later." I use this G3 as my OS9 forever machine, I run OSX on a G4 Digital Audio(DA), which is specifically not suported by this card. Or rather I should say this card is specifically not supported running OS 9 on a G4 DA, but why would I use a PCI card in a G4 anyway??

1st off, the manual included with the card is one for a 9800PRO AGP! Absolutely useless for the 9200. You have to go to the web site and download the *Real* 9200 PCI manual to find out that the system requirements stated there only include OS X!

I spent 4 nights trying to get the computer to just boot up using the 9200. The OS9 drivers included on the disk lock the machine up. The desktop is visible, but no mouse functionality. I finally got the thing to work with the October 2002 retail update from the ATI website. (ROM 210) But none of the features of the card (VersaVision, MAC2TV, etc.) will show up with these drivers. (ATI Control Panel doesn't identify the card properly either, no real news flash there) I ended up re-formatting my hard drive, and re-installing the OS a total of 4 times during this phase of the process.

At this point, finally getting a functional mouse, I tried to start installing my apps, but ATI monitor will not stop to allow the installers to function, so I can't even install applications. So for now I am stuck with a $140 card that does NOT perform. This card DOES NOT SEEM TO WORK IN OS 9.2.2.

It's really easy to see from the packaging that ATI had a hard time getting this thing to market. (I guess the proper term is RUSHING it to market) On the shrinkwrap, there is a total of three stickers (One on top of the other) giving me three seperate Tech ID numbers. There are also three part number labels (All specific to the MAC Radeon 9200 PCI) the only difference in these three stacked part number labels is the rev version of the card. The bottom label says this is a "REV 1.0" card, the next label states this to be a "Rev 2.0" card. The final (and top) label says this is a "Rev A" card.

I really get the impression that ATI doesn't know what the heck this card is. I am debating whether to call ATI or not, (Using up my *free* support period. Only 30 days, looks like it's going to be a lot longer than 30 days to get this mound working) or just getting rid of the card on eBay, and let some other fool deal with YET ANOTHER piece of vaporware.

After all the months of waiting. After all the false starts, they still hoist this piece of s*it to market, obviously knowing full well it is still half baked.

Save your sanity, look elsewhere for a decent PCI graphics cards for OS 9.2.2, this one ain't there yet.

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