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Speedy and Dean,
If you go back to the beginning, that is why I started this topic.
It seems though it is not just the U.S.,but World Wide.
Speedy, I usually don't look at the European eBay listings, but if that IIc (New In The Box) is an example, we're all doomed. LOL
Dean, I know exactly what your saying. Woz gets no credit what-so-ever from the media. It's ALL Steve Jobs.
Yes. Jobs was Co-founder.
Yes. Jobs was fired by Sculley.
Yes. Jobs got Pixar out of hock and made Billions.
Yes. Jobs regained control of Apple and turned it back into a powerhouse.
But No. Woz made the Apple I and Apple II, II+, IIe, and designed the IIgs, which not only started the company, but kept it going through all the turmoil AND the birth of the Mac.
When the media does an Apple story, it's all Jobs.
I firmly hope that when they get this upcoming movie completed that Woz will have his rightfull place depicted and people will finally see his importance in the History of Apple.
Alas...I think of famous couples in history: Burns and Allen, Martin and Lewis, Abbot and Costello, etc., where the straight men got all the glory while thier counter parts just faded away.
Woz should NOT JUST FADE AWAY!!!
Anywho...just my opinion.
Yeah I remember that's why you started this topic and I've agreed with you all along. I think Woz has demonstrated how great a person he is by never complaining about the lack of acknowledgement he has gotten over the years for his contributions to Apple. Those of us who truly know the history of Apple will never forget his part, even if the general public doesn't know.
i agree to this points... history as far as most people recognize it within the last 100 years - has allways lacked from some kind of "capitalistic" view.... in ages where people only count money to be "valueable" it seems only the tycoons get chance to enter the books....
if you take a ride with AMTRAK today you will remember Mr. Rockefeller but you never will remember the namelass thousends of dead people from China and Irland along the sides of the tracks... Rothschild once said: "at the beginning of each large estate there is always at the very beginning a crime" if you for example remember Mr. Gates and the trials about betrayal and other delicts ( only very few remember how the story with "MS-DOS" started, Netscape story and so on... )...... or Mr. Zuckermann .... and in fact in most cases the tycoons never remind that their wealth was made on the shoulders of many working men....
Mr. Jobs would have probably just become famous if he would have sold something else too - it´s not really dependant to Apple.... but without Mr. Wozniak and the Apple 1 the company would have never been founded....
Imagine Mr. Jobs would have made his startup with STARBUCKs.... he would start after 6 or 7 years to kickout the customers from the lounges of the coffeshops..... and sell coffeepills because they are smaller, they can´t be spilled and each year he could change the design of the pills .... and in a few years you would get instead of coffeepills coffee-chewing-gum with bleaching effect for the teeth and nobody would be called to be cool without coffee-chewing-gum....
I know I don't see too many of those bags around, but for just the //c and the bag, that price is excessive IMO.
Now i've seen just about everything...
This takes the cake. lol
As if the price of the unit is not enough, check out the Shipping.
Sorry SpeedyG. I lost track of this one since it bubbled down the list and thought I was posting to the correct one.
Well it doesn't boot, the keys repeat, but at least all of them are there and you get 5 new sealed Atari games all for one low low price. Oh yea, by the way AS-IS and free shipping.
235 bucks ? that´s nearly really a bargain if you don´t want to spend 1299,00 Bucks...
this offer is up for more than 2 months ........
i always bear in mind the joke a friend of mine made.... :
do you know the prayer of the armeniam carpet-dealer that is told every evening ?
each day some one idiot will startup this morning..... you just have to catch that very guy and get him into your shop....
this poor guy is hunting for his special customer allready for more than 2 months......
not to talk about the excellent reputation that bulgaria has in the business world in europe....
most people here treat this country as result of earlier trouble and fraud to be something like a
astronomic "black hole" in the business community.... the best advice to this seller would be to send this system to any freind in any other country within the european union to offer it from any other country within the EU except from bulgaria or romania....
Here's a couple of side-crackingingly laughable eBay listings -
Can someone, anyone, please explain to me what is so special about this machine to warrant such an outlandish price?
Here's probably the most laughable I've ever seen on eBay -
Yours for a cool $45,000!
Sadly this madness isn't going to stop, it's only going to increase as speculators by hook or by crook get their hands on these old machines with that alluring multi-coloured Apple logo that causes cash register rings - Kerching!
What's even more laughable is that these old Apple II's are neither rare nor scarce. The Apple II series of machines was one of the longest running machines ever produced by Apple and as such there's still a heck of a lot of them around.
Yes. I'm afraid that Apple Aliens have taken over the planet.
They all think that just because thier listing title has Steve Jobs in it, they can get whatever they want and some poor gulible person will spend thier hard earned money.
I had a conversation (e-mail type) with the person wanting $45,000.0 for the IIe. He has no positive proof of anything.
I was at VCF East back in May and got my Apple IIe signed by Dan Kottke and I have proof. Signed by Apple Employee #12. By all accounts I should be able to get $3750.00 for it.
Just Kidding. I wouldn't sell it for anything.
It amazes me that people think this stuff is worth way more than it is. I was watching the show "Storage Wars" the other day and I saw one of the first Nintendo games they found in a locker and the one "expert" said it was worth over $1000.00. The other guy thought he was full of crap and went with him to a video game shop to get it appraised. It was such a relief that the video game expert said that the only way that Nintendo was worth $1000.00 is if it came with $1000 bill wrapped around one of the controllers.
I really enjoy restoring and repairing Apple IIs. I repaired Atari computers and games as a summer job while I was in college and always found it relaxing. These folks are making it damn near impossible to do this inexpensively.
As a side note, if one looks at the ended auctions for the IIes on eBay they are all selling between $15 and $40. The $200.00 ones keep getting listed and re-listed.
Off my soapbox for now....
This guy has got a set so big he cannot be able to sit down!
This guy has the guts to say he paid $250.00 for this CFFA 3 and only wants half of what he paid!
that´s a nice story.... but it´s a pitty that you didn´t take a risk and view the "other items" linked there too....
the "absolut hit" is that:
he´s got 3 of them running at the moment and his intention to sell the simple disk-notcher for "only 45,00 U.S. Dollars" surely indicates some kind of commercial talent - if we don´t forget, that these notchers were sold for less then 5 bucks 20 years ago.....
A closer look at the "feedback as a buyer" will see that these are all buy and re-sell items...
The Apple MAC ADB sharing box bought for $61.95 in June on sale again now for $125
Apple Stellar Invaders bought for $5.50 on sale for $50
Various disk notchers bought for $30-$35 and on sale for $45
Item turn arounds for 50%+ profit - nice if you can get it....
Speedy and Integer,
Yep. This guy is a real pip. LOL
This one almost takes the cake. Come on! $75.00 for a piece of paper!! At least it is laminated. That adds to the value.
WOW!! --- I'll say it backwards too. WOW!
I don't much about the current availability of game pads for the Apple II, but I can't believe a BIN price of $250 is reasonable...
I have been saying it from my soapbox for over a year now.
These folks think that Apple II users and collectors have thier brains in thier wallets and not thier heads. There is one or two sellers on eBay in particular that keep placing the same items repeatedly up for sale at the highest prices you've ever seen and expect one of us poor slobs to shell out the cash.
Well, I have the computers (all Apple II's) that I want. I am buying reasonably priced software and reasonably priced cards when I have the funds to do it.
I place all the "Laughable" items up here so folks won't spend thier hard earned cash.
I need a sanity check here. I think I am getting fairly decent at estimating value of these things.
What do you guys think the value of this one is? Wanted to bounce it off the fritters....
I think $60 would be a pretty good deal, and $120 is reasonable. It's a full system, albeit not rare. Not laughable.
I'll have to agree with akochera.
If what I am reading is correct, you get:
- The CPU
- The Monitor
- The Dual Disk Drive
- The printer.
Although it does not say what type of printer it is.
I would think that if you live close by it would be worth the money.
Nope. This is one instance where it is not laughable.
Thanks Guys. I am getting the hang of this. This one slipped through my hands...
Now this is laughable.
For a Liron card and drive - that's pretty reasonable. Meaning, if you want one - that's about what you'll have to pay.
I'm afraid that David is right.
The 3.5 Uni-Disk with Liron Card combo is becoming scarse fast.
I have my own 3.5 SuperDrive with SuperDrive Controller Card (both brand new in the box) sitting back here on the shelf. I haven't used it yet, but I paid almost $200.00 for the combo and that was several years ago. lol They just don't grow on trees and old hands like me are not selling them.
There are several others that have popped up on wheebay the last week or so though that are thoroughly Laughable.
The $800.00 Franklin.
The $1500.00 II+. (oh! that one is a doozy! The guy in Georgia had the II+ "Refurbished" by an outfit in Canada. The guy in Canada bought about $30.00 worth of chips, replaced them, cleaned up the computer, provided an "Exclusive List" of what he had done.) Now he wants $1500.00 for a computer that (even if KenB had refurbished it) you can probably get for about $100.00.
Now That is laughable!
Yikes! I didn't realize these were commanding that high of a price. I stand corrected. I have three of LIRON cards that I purchased about 10 years ago for $40.00 including shipping and also have about 1/2 dozen of the 3.5" drives in various states of "Yellow". I guess I just didn't realize how scarce these have become. Thanks.
Heres one thats been floating around for a while
at first it was 400, than 200 and know 150. In one of the ads it said it was only used once. Firt of all, the most they could have paid for it was 2000$ and secondly, I can see smudge warks on it. Still , if it drops below 50$, I might concider. There are so few vintage macs in my area
There seems to be a fresh rash of outragiously priced items showing up on ebay this week.
How about a new in the box Apple II Super Serial II Card:
Starting price: $500.00
Buy It Now for $5,000.00
I just had to e-mail this guy and ask him what planet he was from.
Its not just vintage apple stuff either. check this out:
It was 1000, then 750 then 500.
I got mine for 30$ with over 300 disks and accesorys
it seems to be a regular phenomenon that sellers that prefer to offer their items in such "alternate" platforms speculate to find buyers, that are not aware about "normal prices" at ebay ........
so i guess you can find such "exorbitant pricing" rather often in such platforms .....
similar effects are viewed here in europe too.....
thats also the reason that such platforms have not been mentioned that often in this thread....
here the view is marked up rather more to the fact that just even in ebay - where rather more realistic prices are more common - "exorbitant pricing" also occurs and that these guys, that place such offers have seeemingly never heard anything about watching market and researching facts
and therefor offer items like a Super Serial Card with attributes in their description like :
"very hard to find extreme rare item of historical value"
or offering items that seemingly have been robbed of from the trashyard in very poor and damaged condition
as if it would be a Apple II with one of the first 1000 serial numbers in mint condition and working order.....
I hear you loud and clear. Like this guy. This makes over two months he has been listing these and they look like they were rescued from the trash bin.
Missing Keys, No adapter cards, all the dust and dirt you can manage for a "low low price" of just south of $650.00.
I actually offered this guy $100.00 + shipping of course and he countered with an offer of $550.00 and said ": I just listed these and am not giving them away"
He was correct there! He wasn't giving them away at $649.00. And... He is still not giving them away or selling them.
I thought that $100.00 + the $75.00 shipping was a fair price as I was just going to use them for parts or try to restore them with the parts I already have.
Oh well. We will see if some sucker pays $649.00 for them. I am not even going to write him again and ask again. I figure he still has my offer and if he is interested, they he can contact me.
here in Germany there is a guy with similar mind and similar replies to mails with offers..... from that man the experience shows some replies like "you don´t know anything about internet business..." my dropped ( unsent )reply....:
"your surely right... i don´t know anything ... you must be the big Guru in internet-business - i can see the evidence for this by the fact that your listing the same damn drive for 159,00 Euro ( thats 200 bucks ! ) for now more than 4 months... so your price is that attractive that the guys are trashing your doors down to get that offer.... " and of course because i´m polite i swallowed this reply down .... it´s anyhow just the proof that this guys are true believers in the rule of the armenian carpet-dealer that i explained several posts above.... "every morning a stu.... guy gets up... you just got to catch that id... and sell him your sh... !"
Here in Germany we got a term for that: "he got born stu...., - he has never learned any additionel things - and when he died he had forgotten the half of his knowledge...."
in other words it´s waisting time if you try to teach a bull a trick that was determined to be performed by a bird.... ( just my private opinion... )
Jay, Speedy and All,
Thats why I created this topic in the first place.
Somewhere that folks can see what kind of sellers we deal with all the time.
People who do not have a clue about Apple II's, the accessories, or anything else Apple.
A few days ago on ebay I found (for sale) an Apple II Plus. Starting Bid: $4,000.00.
Thats right; 4k.
No cards inside, nada.
This was the sellers first item ever.
I believe he also wanted $175.00 shipping.
By the way, the auction says it's an Apple II, not a II Plus.
It makes you laugh, and it makes you cry.
I am not on hiatus with this topic.
It's just that I have not witnessed anything absolutely outragious on eBay for a while now.
There seems to be a lull in the "Crazy" market.
There are still a few software holdouts though.
There also seems to be more Apple II software showing up for auction lately.
probebly the US-markat calmed down.... - but the european market at ebay still shows up with several guys that
follow up with the "armenian carpetdealers law".... for example the guy in bulgaria is still searching for an idiot willing to pay 1199,00 Euro for a IIc..... and the IIe is still availiable for 1299,00 Euro.... seems some guys don´t want to learn their lesson, but stand on their opinion for another year.....
These folks just add fuel to my opinion: "It takes all Kinds."
Yeah. I noticed that everyone and their brother is copying and selling software on ebay that one can get for free with a SSC and a couple dollar serial cable and ADT. What's up with that?
I guess their is no copyright issues with this. Dr. Ken started it by offering DOS and Pro-DOS diskettes for around $12.00ea.
I just purchased a bunch of new 5.25" diskettes for 10cents ea and I have a template to make 5.25" disk jackets for about a 2cents ea.
I could have my daughter copy these for me after school and sell them for $10.00ea and still make a profit, but something just feels wrong about doing that.
Just in time for Halloween. A Haunted IIc on EBay for a Buy it now for $666. Oh, it comes with picture of the Lord to keep the what ever is plaguing it in check.
Just needs the disk drive head cleaned and chips reseated. Maybe certain disk are going bad.
This is a very nice and rare specimen of an LCD screen for the IIc, but really?
The least they could do is give you free shipping.
So you seen Dan's IIc LCD.
Yes, when I saw the price he's asking I wanted to smoke some of the same thing he's been smoking. lol
I think the last one that was up on eBay went for close to $400.00, but nothing like this.
While I think that ADTPro is certainly worth $130, it would be crazy to pay that when you can get it for free or get a similar package of accessories for a fraction of the price.
If the LCD reaches my price point I will purchase it.
Yes. I sent a PM to David Schmidt about this one.
But he says he's ok with it.
When I first looked at the auction I was thinking "How in hell can he get away with Davids FREE software!?"
Mark (maceffects) says its part of a "kit" and he is actually selling the cables.
Well, just about everyone in the Apple Community knows you can get an ADTPro "Kit" with cables from David for about $40.00 with shipping for the software and all the cables you'll ever need.
It's a shame really.
For the record, here's a thread that contains what I wrote about it back when the $160 version came out:
He's perfectly within his rights to produce physical media for someone and to build a bundle with cables to complete the connection. Yes, you could also do the same thing for next to nothing with only a soldering iron and some cable ends - and I give out the plans for that too. The only thing that worries me is that he represents almost the entire ad as a sale of ADTPro, and trades on that name rather than emphasizing (or even mentioning, really) the cables that come with the package. When maceffects contacted me after some of the hoopla started, I asked him to mention the ADTPro website and the fact that the software itself is free - he added this to the bottom of his new ads:
"You can download the program/updates free of charge online."
Not exactly what I would have liked, but I guess you can't have everything.
the problem splits in fact in 2 portions:
i guess that you did not take any kind of action to protect the term of "ADTpro" as name.....
thats the first part of the problem that restricts your possibilities on legal reaction.....
if you would have done you would have the possibility to react against ebay and forbid them to
allow users using that term without your permission....
you then could also forbid the user to use the term without your permission in sales or advertising without
if you have a lawyer within your friends my advice would be to get the required info from that friend.
its an fact a problem of copyright....
sincerely yours speedyG
No, not really. If I'm selling a Frigidaire refrigerator on ebay, I can use the name to describe it without violating anyone's copyright (or more accurately, trademark). And again, he is perfectly within his rights under the GPL to copy and sell ADTPro using its name. He's just going about it in a way that seems to rub everybody (myself included) the wrong way. It's not that he's doing anything legally wrong; the gouging thing in ADTPro's name is more of an ethical issue.
i do agree with that, but that´s a general problem..... somewhere in the end of the 80´s to the beginning of the 90´s ethics in business got killed and only greed survived.... thanks to Ronny Reagan, Goldman Sachs and Bush sen. .....
I still in the 60´s remember the craftspeople who realy kept on pride to the work they executed and corrected mistakes without needing a lawyer to run for a claim and contacts sealed with a handshake to be reliable....
seems to be also a problem of education....
I reckon I have to apologize for my posting about you being ok with what maceffects is doing. From what you wrote in your pm, I got the sense that you were kind of resigned ( I guess that be a better term than "ok with it")to what he was doing.
As I said before; I think the situation stinks. He may be selling a "kit", but the way the auction is written he is selling ADTPro, not the "kit".
I bought all my cables and the ADTPro disk from you a while back. But his price for the "kit" is absolutely outrageous and I told him so.
He now has two separate auctions going for ADTPro kits. Both are still at about $125.00.
This is not good.
Saw this over on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace but thought people here might like to see it as well.
I'd really like to add an accelerator to my GS, but not at this price. In fact this is more than I've spent on the entire GS, even with a CFFA3K and a Soundmeister sound card added to it.
Speedy, Please keep political potshots out of the discussion. Right or Left, doesn't matter, we don't do politics on Applefritter. Thanks.
O.K. i´ll accept that and keep it away in the future..... the only reason that it was posted, was to point out to the roots of todays issues.... nothing happens without reason.... but often people forget the link between things that happened in past and cause economical results today..... on the one side claiming economical issues today - but forgetting economical reasons in the past is a short hit of the ball..... and things won´t change if you don´t remember the initial cause.... - but lets just guess that everybody remembers well the past and recognizes the economical relation to the issues today and that such reminders are not needed ( recognizing that economy is also in fixed relationship to political and vice versa ) - i anyhow will stay off from such statement in future in respect to the board...
and please accept my apology if anybody felt insulted