French-ie, Newb-ie, Apple One-ie...

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French-ie, Newb-ie, Apple One-ie...

Hello,

I have started a clone of Apple 1.

In few words :

  • I living in Burgondy (france) and I am self-taught in electronics and sometimes I miss some pieces of the puzzle that will seem obvious to an engineer. I hope my questions will not seem too naive to you.
  • English is not my native language and I hope for your indulgence for the mistakes that will escape the corrector and translators that I use.
  • I have a motherboard purchased in Germany, a kit from Uncle Bernies, a Datanetics keyboard, and an Apple II monitor.
  • I am filming the construction and will make it into a series of YouTube videos (another great adventure for a novice in editing).

 

For this first post, I wanted to thank Uncle Bernies and all the contributors of this forum for their contribution which has enlightened me a lot on the subject.

 

And of course, to wish you all a Merry Christmas !

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Thank you Wirehead

Thank you Wirehead ... and a Merry Christmas to you as well.  Good luck with your A1 build and I hope you enjoy it.

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Hi wirehead!

Thanks for the congrats and good luck with the build!

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Work in progress

The welds are done, there are still many tests to do before implanting the integrated circuits.

 

 

I had some trouble with the internal Media Browser to post the pic.So I upload on another server : 

https://imgur.com/a/NZUSPwae

Edit : After too long thinking, i finnaly understood "french character  with accent" are forbidden in pict name so pict was updated....

 

some  mods are welded at the back :

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Bonne Année

Bon  progrès! J'espère pouvoir commencer le soudage de mon Apple 1 bientôt également. J'ai presque toutes les pièces :) Par contre, pas encore de clavier ou de moniteur noir et blanc.

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Merci (in french in text)
ebruchez wrote:

Bon  progrès! J'espère pouvoir commencer le soudage de mon Apple 1 bientôt également. J'ai presque toutes les pièces :) Par contre, pas encore de clavier ou de moniteur noir et blanc.

Merci ! J'espère que j'aurais eu le temps de finir et de faire le montage des 25go de rush video à ce moment là ;-)

Je continue en anglais pour le reste du forum ;-)

For my part, I recovered an Apple II green monitor which I hope will be suitable :

 

 

For the keyboard, I couldn't find a PCB at a reasonable price (around €90). It's a shame because I would have preferred to assemble it myself. But ultimately a complete datanetic keyboard for €200 made in Hong Kong wasn't so expensive at the end.

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About jumpers

I don't have a basic board and I don't have build the ACI board yet.I configured my jumpers like this:

 

 

Are they ok?

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Hi wirehead!

I don't know anything besides pardonner but any speech in French sounds to me like an affectionate invitation to the table. 

 

But seriously, here is a open project for self-assembly of Datanetics keyboard. A slightly adapted version of the project of the esteemed Mike Willegal without hard-to-find components. I sent these gerber files to my manufacturer, he gave me 70-75$ for 10 pieces including delivery to Russia. I don't think shipping to France will be more expensive. So 90€ for 1 PCB is moon prices. Don't let yourself be fooled guys!

 

https://github.com/schlae/replica-datanetics

 

About the jumper area above 74154, you forgot R-C and W-E.

 

 

 

 

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 Thank you

 

Thank you for this feedback Macintosh_nik

About the jumper area above 74154, you forgot R-C and W-E.

What are these jumpers for ?

I thought it was only necessary for additional board with basic in ROM...

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Hi wirehead!

I am a little confused, my English is a little better than my French, I apologize. 

 

What expansion cards are you planning to use? This determines how the jumpers should be set up! 

 

The classic jumper layout "for ACI" is used for Juke-Box or SD card from P-Lab. Y-F, Z-D, R-C, W-E, X-0.

 

If you plan to use the EPROM card from Basic, the jumpers should look like this: Y-F, Z-D, R-C, E-S, W-1. In this case ACI card will also work, for Juke- Box card you just need to put jumper 1000-1FFF in Not Enable position.

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Spaciba ! My russian is very

Spaciba ! My russian is very limited too ;-)

What expansion cards are you planning to use?

Not planed any card yet 

Except for the ACI GEN2 Witch was in the Uncle Bernie's Kit.

 

SDcard with a lot of soft is a seducing idea...

Basic Rom card seems more easy to build...

 

I need to studie that.

If you plan to use the EPROM card from Basic, the jumpers should look like this: Y-F, Z-D, R-C, E-S, W-1.

in this last case X-0 must be disconnected ?

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Hi wirehead!

Yes, for Basic card starting with E000R command X-0 should be disabled and the other jumpers should be connected as I wrote above. 

 

I have another idea, let me take a couple of pictures of the jumpers on my boards tomorrow and add them to this thread? Because you and I are not native English speakers, we seem to understand each other pretty well, about as well as a deaf man understands a mute man.

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jumpers

I have another idea, let me take a couple of pictures of the jumpers on my boards tomorrow and add them to this thread? 

Karacho !

With pleasure !And it will be instructive for all subsequent readers

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Macintosh_nik wrote:Yes, for
Macintosh_nik wrote:

Yes, for Basic card starting with E000R command X-0 should be disabled and the other jumpers should be connected as I wrote above. 

 

I have another idea, let me take a couple of pictures of the jumpers on my boards tomorrow and add them to this thread? Because you and I are not native English speakers, we seem to understand each other pretty well, about as well as a deaf

 

Actually, X-0 MUST be enabled unless you are running external RAM because without it there will be no RAM in the 0000-0FFF address block and the 6502 can't work.  

 

 

In the instructions I made up for my EPROM board, I included a description for the memory blocks.

 

The bottom address lines map to the system address space in 4K blocks.  The top lines are;

Y = Woz Monitor PROM (Mapped to 0xF000)

Z = 6820 keyboard interface addressing (Mapped to 0xD000)

X = The first onboard 4K bank of dynamic RAM (Mapped to 0x0000)

W = The second onboard 4K bank of dynamic RAM (Mapped to 0xE000)

R = Cassette interface PROM and hardware mapping (Mapped to 0xC000)

S = Auxiliary (EPROM board or others)

T = Auxiliary (CFFA1 or others)

 

Does this help to understand the memory addressing?

 

Kevin

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Hi guys!

PROMetheus is right, I didn't have the board handy, I wrote it as I remembered. I apologize. Here are the promised photos of jumpers on my boards, the version "for ACI" of course fully repeats the picture of PROMetheus.

 

For ACI

 

 

For Basic

 

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Thank

Thank you PROMethus

Now that I have the definition of the elements concerned it is much clearer.

and Thank you Macintosh_nik for the Photos.

Here is the new jumper configuration.

 

 

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Power supply:240v transformer

Power supply:

240v transformer:

Elma TT IZ57 8v 3A

Elma TT IZ59 2 x 15v-12v-10v 1.2A

The Conrad references are on the pict (it's cheaper through Amazon Amazon than directly with Conrad)

 

 

Secondary wiring :

 

 

I temporarily installed them in a 3d printed case.(My printer is a PRUSA I2 from 2012 so it's less beautiful than a modern printer)

 

 

Male IEC socket 59JR101switch + fuse holder + indicator light :

https://www.gotronic.fr/art-socle-iec-male-59jr101-23169.htm#complte_desc

( cheaper than amazon)

Here is the connector with a "key"

 

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The connector on the

The connector on the motherboard has been modified with one pin less to correspond to the key.

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Nice work

I like the PSU case. Safer than exposed wires, for sure.  If this is "temporary", I look forward to the final version.

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 The final one will be in a

 

The final one will be in a wooden case with the motherboard.

But I haven't really thought about it yet.

The goal was to keep me safe during the tests.

Private Joke for Old French :

 

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Hi wirehead!

Ha ha! Is this video you're planning to make going to be in French? Even if so, don't forget to leave a link to your channel, the Apple-1 enthusiast scene is very small. Any contribution is very important!

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Yes it will be in french, but

Yes it will be in french, but i'll include english subtitle.

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I checked the power rails.I

I checked the power rails.I felt a little heartbroken when I noticed that the +5v was worth 6.5v.On Uncle Bernie's advice I added a 100ohm load resistor. Everything is in order Now !

Obviously the LM343 regulates poorly when empty...

 

By checking the power supplies of each chip, I noticed that a +5 volt power supply was missing on a 2504.

By removing the support I noticed that one pad was damaged.(I had to do this when I had to change the socket because I accidentally burned it while soldering a capacitor.)

a little repair it's now ok

To try to understand the Apple 1, I took the Gerber files in Illustrator and redrew the layout of the tracks and the circuit pinsI noticed the presence of a ground loop between pins 10 and 110 of the 2513  in orange.

 

 

It's a small loop, I'm thinking about cutting the track below between pins 10 and 11 to interrupt it.What do you think ?

 

 

The circuit is fully populated, but as I am in paranoid mode I will continue the checks before doing the first test.

It's going to be hard to resist the temptation...

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Hi wirehead!

If your power supply gives the correct voltage, all power lines on the board without chips show the correct values and there are no shorts between them, why are you pulling the cat by the balls? Turn it on and you'll find out.

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fuggedaboutit

The "ground loop" is absolutely insignificant and will not make any difference if it is removed. Keep in mind, the traces on the board are not the whole circuit! The circuit layout of each IC is "hidden". But there are many "ground loops" in them as well, and they make absolutely no difference.

The kind of ground loop that causes problems is when a signal and ground lay side-by-side, as in a cable with two conductors in it, and thereby inductively couple together. If there is additional return current in one of the wires from some other source, it inductively couples to the other wire, which produces noise.

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Poor cat ;-) it's a curious

@Macintosh_nik

Poor cat ;-)

 

it's a curious expression. In France, people would tell me that I'm more of a "ceinture et bretelle*" guy

(*belt and suspenders)" .

It's true that with an AliExpress kit, I would have already put "power on" but with rare and expensive parts, I don't take unnecessary risks.The latest inspection evidence revealed two pins welded together at a ram.

after correction:

Despite these checks there remains a problem at the first start I ll explain after...

 

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@robespierreThank you for the

@robespierre

Thank you for the clarification...

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No Slash

I took a quick video with the camera:

https://youtu.be/b7XzdggvN-M

Same thing above with pict :

 

I got the Start screen:

 

 

Mais pres CLR and RESET, I had no slash upper the Arrobace :

 

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Hi wirehead!

You did it, you can be proud of yourself, but unfortunately only half of it. Your processor part doesn't work, and there could be many reasons for that. 

 

I didn't like your "art" on the back of the board right away, but I didn't tell you so as not to upset you too much. I guess now's as good a time as any. Can you take a good photo of the back  or the board? I don't know what it is, I marked it with a red arrow. 

 

Try a simple test: pin 40 6502 and GND should reset when you press Reset. Here is my video for better understanding. 

https://youtu.be/7y8wNAz6RuA?si=TvFXFDpPcw4ne70J

 

 

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Carefree. I won't be offended

Carefree. I won't be offended ;-)

I am aware of the limits of my work.

Constructive criticism is welcome!

What you see in addition to the reliability mods are metal resistors that I had to add in parallel to bring the carbon resistors within a +/-2% tolerance.

 

For the areas of the red arrows, the original values were very, very far from 7.5 kohms.

 

But I think I understood that this part is used to help the generation of "pixels" of the characters provided by the 2513. As the "@" is displayed well. I don't think it's related.

I will also check area B11 better because it is at the level of 2504 under DS0025 that I did a bad job in desoldering the burnt support. (see pad tearing above)

But I would lean like you for a frozen computer part or a problem moving the cursor which will remain in the same place

 

 

 

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A clue

I just had controling the board. with a thermal camera

the 8t97 and the 6502 at 38°

6520 at 23°

but the ram remains cold at room temperature 20° (celcius) it seems completely inactive

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12v Shorted...

After the thermal cam :

https://youtu.be/VAYnaBTfIl8

 

The 12v regulator is very hot and the 12v is missing from the rams.It remains to find the short circuit

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Thermal view
wirehead wrote:

I just had controling the board. with a thermal camera

the 8t97 and the 6502 at 38°

6520 at 23°

but the ram remains cold at room temperature 20° (celcius) it seems completely inactive

Hi,

 

The RAM being cold seems normal and a thermal view of one of my boards after running for 10 minutes shows the same.

 

 

Using an infrared thermometer, I get these numbers. Sorry about the Fahrenheit temps.  :-)

 

Temperature measurements

LM323          177F

LM7812         110F

LM320 MP-12    123F

LM3320 MP-5    133F

74166           91F

74161           92F

2519            94F

6502            88F

6820            85F

82S129          96F

74S257          91F

8T97            85F

MCM4027AC3      79F

74157           87F

74174           89F

74175           85F

74157           85F

7404            88F

2513            91F

 

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Berezina!

The expression being in the Bérézinaé does not have the same connotation for french as for our Russian friends since the fail of Napoleon's armies crossing this river. It's synonymous with debacle, bad luck, trouble up to your neck, etc...That's kind of my current feeling...

I wasn't careful enough with the cat and I let a solder drip on one of the reliability mods: 

 

 

Unfortunately it connected the +12V and the A1 address line (pin 7 et 8 of ram4027), perfectly validating Murphi's law.

 

Summary:a 74257 destroyedProbably RamsMaybe the Prom wit woz monitor...

In the meantime, I put in a 74LS157 (I know it's not the right one) and I put in Uncle Bernie's test proms. See the video :

 

https://youtu.be/W1nlJ2PBAdo

 

The good news : There is still life in the computer part.

 Test 1 is carried out partially and Test2 is carried out automatically with a lot of error code that I have not yet analyzed.I'm waiting for a replacement set of ram to carry out swaps...

 

 

 

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Hi wirehead!

I can give you the contact of a verified seller in EU, he has DRAMs and can also make a new PROM kit if needed. You can use 74ls257 instead of 74s257, but then you have to replace all 4 chips.

 

In our country the battle of Borodino is remembered more often than the battle of Berezina from the war of 1812. I don't know why.

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Macintosh_nik wrote:I can
Macintosh_nik wrote:

I can give you the contact of a verified seller in EU, he has DRAMs and can also make a new PROM kit if needed. You can use 74ls257 instead of 74s257, but then you have to replace all 4 chips.

 

Yes Merci beaucoup ;-)

In our country the battle of Borodino is remembered more often than the battle of Berezina from the war of 1812. I don't know why.

Probably for the same reason that the English name their train station with the names of defeats (French joke about Watterloo station) ;-) 

 

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Diagnostic page

With the 74hc157 the diagnostic page works much better :

https://youtu.be/x0YMl72mBek

 

I remember seeing an error mapping showing the physical position of the drams on the screen based on the code in another thread. But I can't find it. Does anyone know where he is ?

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Hi wirehead!

Your test looks fine, up to a point of course. You definitely don't need a new PROM kit, maybe DRAM is fine if you use 4x74s257/74ls257 and not all the consecutive crap daddy has on hand. The Apple-1 is a computer that was never mass produced, it's still a garage computer. Any replacements are a potential source of problems.

 

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It's Working !!!

After replacing 74287 with a new one.first program with the WozMon...Sorry for the roll on the video but I had to hold the phone with one hand while typing with the other....

 

 

https://youtu.be/xi97Or3FsUc

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Hi wirehead!

Well, everything seems to be working as it should. After you build some expansion card you can test your DRAM chips and try other programs and games.

 

Congratulations, welcome to the wonderful world of Apple-1!

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ACI First Test

I assembled the ACI GEN2.

 

But I can't load basic.

I have Tapper C100R +enterinstead of "*" as stated in the original manual, I get C100R:A9*I type E000.EFFFR

(I don't know if it's good for the Basic)

Then I start the wav.I press "enter"

I obtain a square signal of approx. 2v. and the red led lights up...

But the program remains on a flashing "*" instead of returning to "/"

Video : https://youtu.be/QtRmdOkudTE

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Hello World

EDIT : it's work now :-)

video : https://youtu.be/MRsEv0gehlQ

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Congratulations! I remember

Congratulations! I remember how it felt when I got Basic running on my machine. ;-)

Enjoy!

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Félicitations!

Félicitations!

I hope to get there at some point.

 

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Nice work.  I'm somewhere

Nice work.  I'm somewhere behind you.

Russ.

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À propos de la carte ACI

About the ACI card

There is a mechanical gap with the connector on mother board.You have to center it well because the plug-in part is a little short by one or two millimeters

 

https://youtu.be/YCf-AnMzCPE

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Android is not friendly with the Apple 1

 

It took me a little times to be able to make backups.Main reason:an impedance problem. You must add a resistance of approximately 1.2k in series with the microphone output so that the Galaxy Edge 7 recognizes the insertion of the 3.5 jack

Ideally, I should have bought a 4-contact 3.5mm jack and two mono 3.5 jacks.

But since I'm stingy, I recovered a plug from an out-of-service telephone headset and 2 pieces of stereo cables

So I had to do this wiring:

 

The recovery jack was difficult to solder.

I advise you to get something new which will be more beautiful in the end.

the plastic had a tendency to melt. A new plug would have had longer contact pins

 

 

With a bit of heat shrink tubing.

 

It's ugly but it works !

 

 

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Nanny doesn't want you to go deaf

Second problem :

This damn phone automatically lowers the volume after unplug and re-plugging in the 3.5 jack to preserve the ears of snowflake users...

And you really have to be at maximum volume for the red LED to finally light up....

 

 

I use "Enregisteur de voix facile*" on android :

*"easy voice recorder" https://enregistreur-de-voix-facile.fr.malavida.com/android/

 

I can now load and save short basic programs.

there is a good tutorial here https://www.sbprojects.net/projects/apple1/a1basic.php

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Most illogical

If I can save/load my own codes.

I completely fail with game files from https://archive.org/details/Apple1Cassettes.

Unable to launch Star Trek.

i I tried as basic code :

C100R C100:

A9*

004A.00FFR 0800.0FFFR

E2B3R

and I tried as machine code :

C100R C100:

A9*

E000.EFFFR

/

E000R

But both failed...

Seems illogical... somebody have an idea ?

 

 

 

 

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RTFM...

Ok, I'll answer myself!

It's much easier if you read the readme.txt...

The loading addresses are not the same depending on the file (why???)

For startrek it is:

StarTrek - [Req BASIC][load at 4A.00FFR300.FFFR, enter at E2B3R] 

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Hi wirehead!

Different sound files - different addresses! As far as I remember on the resource you mentioned there are files for the Apple-1 replica of respected Vince Briel with increased memory capacity, they will not work on a regular replica. 

 

If you want you can try what I've built, everything works there. The text file is in Russian, but you only need the addresses.

 

https://disk.yandex.ru/d/PkeDgYyDib1gqw

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