B&W Replacement Power Supply

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catmistake's picture
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B&W Replacement Power Supply

I picked up a beat-up B&W for $10.
I've always wanted one... couldn't pass it up, but its in bad shape outside (inside is pretty clean). I don't know much about this line other than a few of its fantastic specs, like the 100MHz bus speed, the ZIF proc slot, FW, usb1, AND adb.... and that's about it Sad

There is a proc in it, don't know what it is, but I don't care -- I have a G4/450 zif ready to put in there (been saving it for this occasion).
There is no video card (damn savages!)... but I was going to run it headless anyway... and I have an ATI Rage 128 in my 9600 that I could use... still, I intend to use Remote Desktop... so maybe... should I take a look at those probably faster PCI slots and examine options?? You be the judge!)

It didn't come with any HD (though there appears to be cabling for 2 devices), or any RAM (those GD savages!)... so (please) lead me to the cheap Ultra ATA/33 and RAM sites...
I know nothing about ATA... scsi man here, and me and my knuckes are ready, if not eager, to move on...
Also, I'm so used to looking for RAM for the 9600, I'm afraid to begin looking for PC100 (so many kinds!)... any good tips are appreciated.

Its rumored to have a bad power supply, and I know I could just replace it with a functional but used one off an auction site (replace it with the original Apple Part Number: 614-0085), but I thought I'd ask about an upgraded one that might be a good buy... I know little about power supplies, but I know I want to max this out with hard drives, ATA and firewire, and I have no idea if putting a "better" power suppy in will make any difference (keeping in mind that I intend to keep it on all the time).

So here's the summary of my information needs if the information is readily available to you (as in you happen to know what you're talking about... you are experienced.)

a) What about these faster PCI slots? Should I put a hot graphics card on my wish list? Is it worth it? What's the deal?

b) Ultra ATA/33
(?? I know zilch... not even what the connectors look like)

c) Apple Part Number: 614-0085
(or repacement power supply for B&W suggestions)

d) PC100 3.3v, unbuffered, 8-byte, non-parity 168-pin SDRAM
(I THINK I saw some 256 modules for $32... but I am really unfamiliar with PC100 SDRAM... and wondering if this is really a rock bottom price, or if its likely its wrong because of the price... just don't know!)

Thanks for helping!

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Take a standard ATX power sup

Take a standard ATX power supply. Snip the -5V wire and your good to go.

Any IDE hard drive will do. All drives of useable size will be at least ATA33.

On the SDRAM you have to be careful. The real cheap stuff tends to use high capacity chips so it will not work. On 256's it must have 16 chips and on 128's at least 8.

catmistake's picture
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beautiful...

nice... thanks.

I'm a little confused about the power supply... are all ATX the same?
What does wattage on a power supply mean? Is it like on lightbulbs (see what I'm talking about?... not a clue.)?

Anyone know of any B&W RAM cheaper than this?

... and I take it 256MB is the largest memory chip it takes? no 512MB or (ahem) gigabyte PC100 chips that will work (or exist)? Has this been confirmed? Any stories (someone must have tried, right?)?

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All ATX powersupplies should

All ATX powersupplies should be the same. Watch out for some Dell and Compaq/HP jobbies, because they can be different. However, if a PSU is advertised as ATX, it should be alright.

The wattage is the maximum amount of sustained power the powersupply can put out. If you need to replace the PSU, you should always replace it with a unit at least as capable as the original. On the B&W, that's 200W. You should be able to install a higher capacity PSU, but unless you have a really power hungry video card, or multiple SCSI drives or something, you probably won't need it.

According to Apple, the most RAM the B&W can take is 1GB (4x256MB). Apple has never really been all that accurate on the max RAM rule, so it is *possible* that you can stick more in there. However, I have never seen PC100/133 bigger than 512MB, so the theoretical max. is 2GB.

You can find Apple's official specs here.

Cheers,

The Czar

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I had a B&W G3 and never had

I had a B&W G3 and never had any luck getting anything larger than 256's to work.

catmistake's picture
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please explain this

I was wondering if the later model G4 (Digital Audio, QuickSilver(s), FW800, MirrorDriveDoors(s)) powersupplies would fit into the B&W (360W & 400W), and I just thought I'd check prices of eBay to see if they were cheap... well, what the heck is the reason for the price of this?
(When I see higher wattage ATX psu's NEW for @ $17)

(btw... this unit is only 220W... so not what I was aiming for... but if this price is justified... can I expect what I was looking for to follow suit?)

Is it just another item on eBay that people are paying too much for??

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Reality Check please!

I'm thinking of ordering all this in the next couple hours (some of these prices expire today) and I'm asking for a reality check... is this an extraordinarily bad idea (keep the Mini in mind)...?
or a decent bargain (the B&W was $10)... ?

2X 256MB PC100 RAM + free ship = $64

Western Digital 7200 IDE UltraDMA ATA/100 120GB Hard Drive + $5 ship = $104.99 - 2X $30 rebates = $44.99

Pioneer DVR-109 16X DVD DVD+RW/-RW Drive + free ship = $58.90

AG 320W 320 Watt Intel Pentium 4/ AMD ATX PC Power Supply (I will need to clip a wire) + 7.63 ship = $24.62

G3 bezel + $4 ship = $13

subtotal = $265.51 - $60 in rebates (on HD) = $205.51

------
More dunnos:
Please take a look at my pics:
IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_3-7324_640x480.jpg)
IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_1-7322_640x480.jpg)
IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_2-7323_640x480.jpg)

-looks like I am missing some HD brackets.... I've never seen the inside of a B&W so I don't know what they look like... if someone knows where I can find what I need here, please let me know and tia

-so I have this 450MHz MAChSpeed G4 ZIF CPU, from a MAChCarrierMPe... assuming I collect the proper drivers and/or firmware updates... this will work in the B&W, right? and I can probably overclock it, right? What speeds can I expect to be stable, all things considered?

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missing brackets

Your rev 1 B+W is missing both the HD bracket and the optical drive carrier. Ouch!

Let me know if you want a bottom bracket, I'm pretty sure I've got a spare. You can have it for the cost of shipping from USA 08618 (that is, if my aged brain remembers correctly and I actually still have one.) If interested respond directly, my email addy is in my sig.

I haven't any spare optical drive carriers though.

edit: also, having looked at your planned purchases, I'd suggest you take a pass on the WD JBRTL drive. That's the retail version which has only a 1 yr warranty. Do get a drive with at least 3 years, eg: the OEM WD JB HDs. Even better, buy a Seagate which comes with a 5 year warranty. You may spend a couple more bucks now, but when the drive fails in 18 months you'll be glad you did.

dan k

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cool...

Hey, thanks for responding... I was beginning to wonder if anyone was out there.

I ended up getting a 200GB Barracuda here, (expires in less than an hour).

The WD was actually a slightly better deal in $/GB, but I have never known any Seagates to go bad... they rock (though I hate Amazon!).

So, yeah, send me a PM so I can get the bracket from you, and if you know where I can get the CD bracket, that would be cool, because I couldn't pass this up!

catmistake's picture
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Found some uncopyrighted material of interest

Thanks, everyone.

I've discovered some interesting tidbits about the G3 in my searches elsewhere, and I thought I'd post them here for future reference for others like myself...
• The one thing I couldn't find was how to tell if you have a Rev2 board or not (something about the "402" chip?)... if anyone knows, please post your knowledge!

fyi Quotes and Images from Apple Service Source
(can't find a copyright anywhere on the document)

The Power Macintosh G3/Macintosh Server G3 logic board has a processor module jumper installed at J25. The processor jumper is color coded for the speed of processor module used (yellow jumper for 450 MHz, white jumper for 400 MHz, blue jumper for 350 MHz, and black jumper for 300 MHz).

The Power Macintosh G3 computer includes four PCI expansion slots. Three of the slots are 5V, 64-bit, 33 MHz slots that support both 32-bit and 64-bit PCI cards that are compliant with the PCI V2.1 specification. The other slot, is a 3.3V, 32-bit, 66 MHz slot dedicated to a 2D/3D accelerated graphics card. The 66 MHz PCI slot conforms to the PCI V2.1 specification with the exception that its clock speed is fixed at 66 MHz so it does not accept 33 MHz cards. The 66 MHz PCI slot is keyed for 3.3 V only operation. Older 5 V cards cannot be installed in the 66 MHz PCI slot. The 3.3 V 66 MHz PCI graphics card that comes installed in the 66 MHz PCI slot cannot be used in a 33 MHz PCI slot.The combined power consumption of expansion cards must not exceed the limits specified for the Macintosh model. To avoid damaging the computer and expansion card, do not install any expansion card without first checking the documentation for that card.
You can use the three 33 MHz expansion slots to install:
•three 15 W cards
•one 15 W or 25 W card
•two 15 W or 25 W cards
•one 15 W card and one 25 W card

Power Macintosh G3/Macintosh Server G3 computers use three different hard drive carriers for installing drives in the lower part of the unit. The version 1 carrier extends the width of the computer and holds up to three drives. The version 2 flat carrier is the width of a single drive; up to three carriers can be installed in the computer. The version 2 U-shaped carrier is also the width of a single drive but can carry up to two drives, vertically stacked. The U-shaped carrier can be installed only in drive bay 3 and only in a version 2 enclosure with a revision 2 logic board.

IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_08-7344_640x480.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_09-7345_640x480.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_05-7341_640x480.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_07-7343_640x480.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_06-7342_640x480.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_11-7347_640x480.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.applefritter.com/images/bw_-_10-7346_640x480.jpg)

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re: Found some uncopyrighted material of interest

But seriously, folks . . .

Apple's Service Source docs are . . . taa daa! Copyright Apple Computer!

As much as I hate to point this out (being a firm advocate for Apple freely releasing their SS docs), but these pics have got to go. Apple's legal team'll be stopping by with a cease-and-desist sort of lovenote.

Sorry CM, your heart's in the right place, but AF doesn't need the legal exposure.

dan k

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Have you tested the PSU to se

Have you tested the PSU to see if it is really bad?

If you unplug the power connector from the MB, short the Green wire to a black one and the PSU should turn on.

I would also recommend using a voltmeter and quickly measuring the voltages it puts out.
Yellow wires are 12v
Red wires 5v
Orange 3.3v

I can remember which one is Power Good. I think it is the purple one. IIRC that one should be at 12v. I google search should reveal that info.

The voltages will not be exact but should be with in .5v under no load.

Jon
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I nabbed a Dual Layer drive f

I nabbed a Dual Layer drive from MicroCenter after Christmas. Still the same price I paid. It's not a Pioneer, but it is a level of tech higher for the same money.

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and the quotes?

I honestly thought it was an oversight by Apple... I didn't see any copyright...

The quotes are fine though, right? or should they go too?

catmistake's picture
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supply not tested

I'm still looking for my meter... its around here somewhere...
until then, I'm just assuming its fine... besides, gotta find my allen wrench before I can pull it out.

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re: and the quotes?

Nah, I don't think the text quotes are a problem, pretty much the same info is in the devnotes which are freely available. However, I'm not an App1e legal, just MHO.

dan k

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what powers the fan?

I replaced the power supply with some 250W generic ATX, snipped the -5V wire on the power extension cable... and the computer powers fine now... (no more of this sometimes it turns on, sometimes it doesn't crap, push power, and it turns on)

But what about the fan? The original B&W had a special cable just for the fan, and I think I can identify the cable from the ATX (the one with only black and yellow wires) that powers the fan, but the connectors don't match...

What I think is the fan power cable on the ATX has 4 wires, 2 yellow, 2 Black, but the power cable on the fan has only 2 wires, one yellow, one black...

Will I have to snip these wires as well, and graft them to the fan wires... or is there some adapter connecter I can get?

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Be careful using that 200GB d

Be careful using that 200GB drive in your B&W in case it is a rev.1 logicboard. Check this site for info on how to spot the chip:

http://xlr8yourmac.com/G3-ZONE/

That's not a bad price for 256MB PC100 but you can get it cheaper on Ebay possibly.

I wouldn't spend too much on the B&W since you can get them complete cheap on Ebay.I got one recently fo less than $90.00 shipped which may be your best bet and use the $10.00 one for parts.

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Is the chase worth it?

I've got two B&W's right now which I've had for years and which are solid machines, but you should get off the slow and problem-prone onboard ATA bus via an ATA or SCSI controller card. If you're a SCSI man, then stay a SCSI man. Get yourself an ATTO or Adaptec SCSI card, both of which sell for less than $50 on eBay. I've got an 80mhz ATTO card with an Atlas V SCSI drive in one machine, and a Sonnet 133mhz ATA card in the other with a matching ATA drive, and the SCSI seems much zippier.
You can get an optical drive bracket on eBay for around $5 plus shipping. Since your case is Rev. 1, then your motherboard must be too.
But the truth is, I've watch the B&W auctions off and on, and the B&W's are selling complete for less than $100 these days. I watched one that sounded in fine shape go for $50 one day, and then two days later I watched another one that looked in excellent condition with an 800mhz Sonnet G4 zif, DVD/CDRW combo drive, 700mb of RAM, zip, and modem go for $270.
So it might be a situation where the best you would do with your money is just win another complete B&W, use the parts to test what you've got, and then sell the spares. Rev. 2 machines are just all around better to use.
Ramdirect sells very good SDRAM. I bought four matching 256 sticks which were CL2 for about $30 each. The B&W's won't recognize more than 256mb a stick, and you have to watch out for high density RAM which only gets recognize in half by the B&W.

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and the power supply?

I don't mind the speed of the HD... with tiger running, and all that swap space on the 200GB, it performs better than my 1GHz powerbook...

So does anyone know how the ATX PSU powers the fan in the B&W? any one have any links to what I need to do?

Also, being that the ATX PSU has a switch... are there any special instructions for shutting down?

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