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Sorry, last post didn't show up properly: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-II-Vintage-Computer-w-Manual-Discs-Bag-Novation-SERIAL-A2S1-0203/173910843865?hash=item287de4e1d9:g:CAcAAOSwowZc5XXM I especially like the A2M001 - 0042 power supply and the System Master DOS 3.1.1 floppy. Never seen a copy of DOS prior to 3.2. Howie
Hi Howie, thanks for the link.
I have an original Apple DOS 3.1 disk that came with my Apple II in 1976, and from memory, mine looks different from the one in the auction. I'm at work right now but can check when I get home. It certainly did not have the disk write-protect cut out as the one in the auction shows, also, from memory, it did not have "3.1" printed on the label. Laurie
Whoever buys this should cut some vents into the sides, so it doesn't overheat.
Not sure... but it seems to me that someone already installed a fan... take a look at this picture righthand side:
image.jpeg
So even if this is a low serial, it's not in it's original shape any longer if this is the case.
The seller prevents to show the right side of the Apple case... while for me it looks like that you can see a metalic fan grill outside the case.
Just my five cents
Have fun...
It looks like the seller posted links to additional photos. The case has a large hole for a fan and other modifications... =(
The motherboard looks really nice. $5,000+ with 6 days to go. Keep your eye on this one. =)
Looks like a "System Saver" prototype. :-) Just kidding. I bet this will not make it over the $20K mark, but it will come close or over the $10K mark
J
Way too rich for me.
The seller started a new auction, to clarify the situation with the fan and to make the listing clearer: https://www.ebay.com/itm/202687596624
And I don't want to brag, but I was actually the high bidder for all of two minutes.
I wouldn't consider that bragging Tom ... Unless you have more than one. :-D
Nope, I don't have a Rev 0 at all.
I bid $1, then I was outbid at $1.25, so I bid $1.50, but was outbid. Then I tried to bid $2, but I got an error saying I had to bid at least $2,050. Which is quite a bit more than $2… So I bid it up to $4000 for kicks, but I stopped there just in case!
It's a beautiful computer, but there's not much fun you can have with it, that you can't have with an ordinary II+.
[quote=Tom Owad]
The seller started a new auction
[/quote]
In the first auction: shipping $140, in the second $200 (to West-Germany).
Ralf
For Pennsylvania, shipping went from $40 to $80. Maybe he's planning to pack it better now. He should be.
My tracker shows 3 ventless case Apple IIs, the lowest of which went for $12k, but was missing it's original PSU and keyboard, and the other, at $14k, had a missing power supply. The one complete one hit $24,000. Regardless of the fan, this is a ventless that looks to be pretty original otherwise, and that high auction was 6 years ago. I wouldn't bet 100% on it not getting over $20k. If I didn't think I'd be looking for a new place to live after my wife found out, I'd probably go for it between $20-25k.
Those are impressive numbers. Ok, I'm the high bidder again. You'd better be right! :P
Well, generally vintage gear prices have been declining. That's what I'm seeing in my tracker as I include more and more systems. But yeah, a ventless A2s1 is in a whole other league.
An auction is a roll of the dice, of course. Depends who is bidding. I've seen situations where people psych themselves out, because they assume something will go for $$$, and it ends up falling way short. Never know.
I'm out. Although the new high bidder has 8 bid retractions in the past 6 months, so maybe not.
Good luck!
A little over a day left, hope you win!!!
Jay
Sorry...
That's you at $6,601.00?
Not me, but I increased the bid
Wow. That went for way less than I expected. Either the market has cooled, a fan cuts $14,000 off the price, or people just got psyched out and someone got really lucky.
I think the fan really does cut into the value. Even though there have been other "broken" ventless cases sold, a major mod like that is actually worse for the value. The only exception to that is provenance, for example if this specific Apple II was used for something important or owned by someone important.
To be honest, the injection foam cases are so fragile, I haven't seen mine since I bought it, and put it away in storage for fear of cracking it.
Cheers,
Corey
Wow... that's pretty cool. I'm going to be the owner of a ventless Rev 0 Apple II. I honestly wasn't expecting that I would win that. Now I'm going to have to explain this to my wife!
I wonder if it works. The fan doesn't bother me. And I don't know if I overpaid it or underpaid for it. Realistically my son will inherit it someday and he can make that decision.
Do you have any comments on shipping it Corey? Maybe get the seller to buy a Pelican case and ship in that?
Congrats!!
Yeah I've had to explain things once too many times to my wife, so I sat this one out. I personally would not have cared about the fan in the least.
I hand carried mine home (8 hour drive round trip). I think I would remove everythign from the unit (cards and stuff). I would send that stuff separatly. For the unit. I would put it in a plastic bag, and only use peanuts, lots of peanuts and double box. I'd be afraid the expanding foam would crush it, and bubble wrap doesn't give enough. Pack it like you would pack ostrich eggs.
BTW, my big issue with keeping mine out is that I have two boys. I'm afriad of accidents. Another reason my Apple-1 is never at my home.
Thanks Corey.
Yeah... unfortunately it would be a 3 day round trip for me. So that's not very practical. I'll see if the seller would be able to pack it as you've suggested. I knew that they were fragile, but I guess I didn't really realize just HOW fragile.
Cheers!
Dont know if this will give you any ideas or not.
http://www.vintage-computer.com/howtopack.shtml
I would be on "pins and needles" until I unpacked it and saw that it made the journey. Yikes!
Jay
Yeah. I confess that I'm going to be a little edgy. :-) Thanks for the link. Mostly I've had good luck with shipping old computers - except for one IBM monitor that arrived looking like a pile of shrapnel.
Congratuations! Personally, I like the fan. It's well done and it's a necessary modification.
I would not have it shipped. I would either make the three day trip, or I'd hire a service like Craters & Freighters.
[quote=twopaddle]
Wow... that's pretty cool. I'm going to be the owner of a ventless Rev 0 Apple II. I honestly wasn't expecting that I would win that. Now I'm going to have to explain this to my wife!
I wonder if it works. The fan doesn't bother me. And I don't know if I overpaid it or underpaid for it. Realistically my son will inherit it someday and he can make that decision.
Do you have any comments on shipping it Corey? Maybe get the seller to buy a Pelican case and ship in that?
[/quote]
Congratulations on your win! That's a really nice example of an early Apple II, and regardless of its value as a collectible it has tremendous value as something special you can share with your son. How many kids these days would be able to tell their friends they know how to operate a 1977 home computer? Let alone have that experience on a unit that they actually own? It's very cool for the next generation to have hands-on connection and appreciation for where all of today's ubiquitous Apple tech came from. It was the Apple II that catapulted Apple and the personal computer into redefining modern life for better or for worse.
While I have lots of respect for Corey's experience and know-how as a vintage Apple expert, I disagree with the use of styrofoam peanuts. Problem is that peanuts can shift around inside the box, and also leak out if the box is punctured. For example, you'd never start by putting the computer in a box up against a corner and then fill peanuts everywhere else, because obviously that corner of the computer won't be protected if the box is dropped. But even if you start the computer right in the middle surrounded by peanuts, if the box is rolled around it can shift and end up in the corner, especially if the box gets torn and peanuts leak out. This has happened to me, so I speak from experience.
I recommend you keep things simple for the seller, because last thing you want is to make extra work for them. Asking them to buy a special case may be perceived as annoying, and then what do you do if the computer gets damaged, blame them for following your instructions to buy that case? Ebay might not side with you. Yes, have them remove all cards, and have those shipped in a separate box. Then ask them to roll the computer up in bubblewrap many times until they've esseentially made a big burrito out of it 4 or 5 layers thick. Tape the sides and they'll have a big bubblewrap pillow with the computer safely inside. Then put it in a box that is just the right size where the pillow is wedged in there and can't shift around. Remember the actual cardboard box offers little protection, it's just to provide a convenient packaging for shipping labels and handling logistics.
Whichever option you choose, enjoy your new ventless Apple II rev.0!
Howie
I don't know if it's practical but when I had my Teletype shipped we used that new expanding foam product. Worked like a hot damn, and not one crack in the plastic, which on those machines now is absurdly brittle.
@Howie, if I remember you’ve shipped a ventless, so I defer to your advise. I should have said wood box and not cardboard box with the peanuts. When I get stuff shipped by art packer they do what you said, then go peanut crazy and use a wooden crate.
@Falter, the expanding stuff will damage a ventless. It gets very hot when forming and puts a lot of pressure on the case which for plastic or metal is ok. Not for the stuff this case is made from.
Congrats,
negotiate a good ensurance with the seller but If I were you would go to pick it up by myself or send a friend that lives at Nevada. I hope you remove that horrible fan an fill that hole.
Manzana II
Thanks Guys! I truly appreciate the advice. I spoke to the seller, and worked through how he's going to pack it. I'm very comfortable with what he's suggesting; he clearly understands what he's got and it taking it very seriously.
I would love to run down to Nevada to pick it up but that's just not in the cards for a bunch of reasons.
My son is a computer nut as well, and so he's quite thrilled at the prospect of what we've got coming. :-)
I don't quite know what to do with the fan. I'm not really intending to use this machine; I've get several other Apple IIs and II+s for that. And so my inclination is to remove the fan, and either leave the grill or 3 print a cosmetically nicer one. I'm not going to attempt to fill it with anything that will match the finish of the original case. I'd screw that up for sure, and make it worse. :-)
Just a suggestion ... Find a donor Apple ][ case you can cut a circle out of, fit it in the hole and use a hydraulic epoxy sealer (such as Torr Seal) to hold it in place. It will be as solid as original. Beyond that, you might seek a professional to do the finish paint work. FYI, Torr Seal is an off-white color when mixed. Not an inexpensive compound either. https://www.accuglassproducts.com/torr-seal-epoxy-agilent
Ventless case and later Apple II+ are made from different materials, while the first is made of expanded foam the second is ABS plastic, also the tones aren't the same...and will never match. Beware!
Thanks for the suggestion, Macnoyd. I do have an NFG II+ with a somewhat damaged case that could be a donor. But wouldn't repainting it diminish the value of the unit?
I think my inclination is to remove the fan, clean it up and leave it, more or less, as is. Yes, there was some butchery long in the past, but that's just part of the history of the machine. I fear that if I attempted to plug the hole, I'd be making it worse, not better.
drakepirate, the earlier Apple ]['s with the vent holes used a material that had a bubbly plastic, almost foam-like material, only harder. These were the cases produced before they started painting the interior with a conductive coating and applying the aluminum shields to the back. This is the type plastic I am referring to. I'm not sure it is the same or different from the material used in those ventless cases. But IMO, it's no matter because the hole itself, though may be viewed as historical, is indeed a modification to the original case. It's only my opinion, but restoring it to the original condition would be liken to restoring a vintage car to it's original condition. I haven't seen were that actually hurts the value or the originality. Some might disagree, but this is something I would pursue if I were the owner... But I'm not. Now if this originally belonged to Bonnie and Clyde, I would clearly see your point. :-)
A professional could match the paint color and paint to only the side needing the repair and keep the rest original. I see it all the time with cars. Same goes for the repaired side.FYI, my suggestion for using TORR Seal was because this happens to not shrink or expand once it is cured. I have parts I've used this on that are 20+ years old and it has held without cracking or changing shape. But it's pricy ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlgOsqlInpc&t=180s
Fair comment about restoring old cars. I'll think about that. I like the video showing how to go about patching a hole, while retaining the old texture. It would be nice to have the case intact and complete.
That looks terrible.
[quote=Tom Owad]
[quote=drakepirate]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlgOsqlInpc&t=180s
[/quote]
That looks terrible.
[/quote]
Agreed! The patch technique looked OK... But I would expect over time that the quick-set epoxy would shrink or crack.
Should have mixed in glass fibers or used a hydraulic mix. Short-cutting on the paint totally ruined it.
This computer had a fan added because it needs one. It's a bad design.
One thing that makes this model especially interesting is that it's the first of many Apple products had dubious ventilation due to to Jobs' design requirements.
The fan modification accentuates that history. Generally, I would consider most period modifications as neutral, but I think this one is a positive.
What I do dislike is bad restorations. If it were apparent, by color or texture, inside or out, that the computer was patched by a "restorer", I would consider that a very significant negative.
[quote=drakepirate]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlgOsqlInpc&t=180s
[/quote]
Interesting, I found how he did the texture to be informative. I spent a lot of time learning how to make the texture the old fashioned way... Using an air sprayer and regulator. His way is better.
For colour, he should have had the paint matched and mixed it in with the epoxy. I'm also not sure that epoxy is the best to use for that. Seems similar to what I used recently to fix a carbon fiber intake on my car when I tightened a clamp too much (don't ask, I was doing it left handed because I had broken my right shoulder blade so I didn't have the "feel" I usually have in my right hand when tightening a clamp). Anyway, that epoxy does has the wrong density to really fill the hole correctly.
For the injection foam case, I guess you could make a mould of the hole, and then make an expanded foam insert painted the same colour. I'd try not to actually restore those foam cases. They aren't the kind of thing like plastic that is easly repaired other than gluing parts back on that have broken off.
Cheers,
Corey
For anybody curious, I asked Craters & Freighters how they would package this.
I just received the machine. The seller did an outstanding job of packing it, and it arrived in perfect condition.
I spent a but of time poking at it. It actually didn't seem that fragile, except for the cable slots at the back which were clearly VERY fragile. I can see that those would bust very easily.
Now, I'm scared to turn it on. I'm very much afraid of the sizzle-pop-smoke of a cooked electrolytic cap. :-) Open to suggestions! :-)
[quote=twopaddle]
Open to suggestions! :-)
[/quote]
Use some fat resistors instead of the mainboard to test the power supply for your first time.
Regards
Ralf
[quote=twopaddle]
Open to suggestions! :-)
[/quote]
Take the machine (or at least the PSU) *outside* or in a well ventilated room before applying power for the first time. The mains filter capactitors have a habbit of exploding if they are old and dried out. When they go, they release a foul smelling smoke (and in some cases a brown goo) that is *really pungent* (ask me how I know :-) ).
Its probably a good idea to have replacing the capacitors in the PSU fairly high on your priority list anyway to ensure that no damage is done to the motherboard if one of them fails (which they have a tendency to do).
If you have a known good working PSU then I would strongly recommend you use that until you have taken a look at the PSU that came with the system.
Cheers,
Mike
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