New to my Apple iie, stumped on ADTpro

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New to my Apple iie, stumped on ADTpro

Hello.

 

I've been working on my Apple iie, and I'm stuck on the transferring a disk part of ADTpro. I get the ADTpro PORSOS and serial transfer, it's all good there. I'm getting the Host Timeout error when I try to hit enter at the file name prompt to show the list of disks in my directory on the windows laptop.  

im using the Apple Super Serial card in slot 2, dip switches are set up like the diagram on the website.  The cables are the db25 to db9 adaptor, and then the usb to serial adaptor. It's the one that is listed at retro floppy. It's the straight cable arrangement.  The host is a windows 10 laptop, Asus K50IJ, usb 2.0 port.  

the Apple iie also has the 80 column card, and a mouse card installed. It has a light on it that says enhanced that glows and it passes the kernel ok message when you do that self diagnostic.  Two disk drives, both work. And a brand new box of disks.  It has the color monitor if that matters. The serial card used to be in the other slot 1 and set up for the Image Writer printer. That works too.

 

 

 Thanks for the help.  

 

danny

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Just a thought, as i know

Just a thought, as i know nothing about this setup (had to google it), but doesnt win10 see it as a security risk? Might be easier to first test it on an old os that hasnt got a load of protections?

 

So from what i understand, you want to load virtual disks, from the win10 to the apple2 and the apple gives a host timeout? So do you get anything on the apple from the win machine?

Not that i can help you probably, but may clear things up for someone that can.

wkr

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I've been working on my Apple

I've been working on my Apple iie, and I'm stuck on the transferring a disk part of ADTpro. I get the ADTpro PORSOS and serial transfer, it's all good there. I'm getting the Host Timeout error when I try to hit enter at the file name prompt to show the list of disks in my directory on the windows laptop.  

im using the Apple Super Serial card in slot 2, dip switches are set up like the diagram on the website.  The cables are the db25 to db9 adaptor, and then the usb to serial adaptor. It's the one that is listed at retro floppy. It's the straight cable arrangement.  The host is a windows 10 laptop, Asus K50IJ, usb 2.0 port.  

 

 

First, make sure that you are running ADTPro 2.1.0.  On the host side.  The older versions are incompatible with Windows 10.

 

Next make sure that your selection block on the Super Serial Card has the arrow pointed at "Terminal".

 

My acid test for ADTPro communications fucntionality is to turn on the Apple II with no disk in the drive, press control-reset to reach the ] prompt and attempt to perform a bootstrap over the serial cable.

So type the following commands:

IN#2 [return]

Press: ctrl-A  ->> you should see the prompt "Apple SSC:"

type: 14B [RETURN]  ->> you should return to the ] prompt

 

On the host (Win 10) side, select "serial" then use the pull down menu to select "Speediboot"

 

If your connections are correct you should see a bunch of machine language code scroll by, followed by a handshake routine between the Apple II and the Windows PC and it will load ADTPro over the serial connection. 

If this works then your serial connection is good.

(Incidentally, now you should transfer a fresh copy of ADTPro 2.1.0 from the PC to a floppy disk.)

 

If there's nothing happening on the screen of the Apple II when you start Speediboot then you need to check you serial connections, maybe your USB-to-serial adapter (make sure it's an FTDI type) driver or other serial communications issue.

 

 

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ADTpro

I also use Windows 10. I had to change the default baud rate. Reduce your baud rate, and restart ADTpro on your Apple. Keep trying this until it connects.

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Run as Administrator

I endedup having to run it as an Administrator. I think, from memory, the process was run an Administrator Command Prompt and then run the Batch file from there.

 

Cheers!

 

Chesh

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CheshireNoir wrote:I endedup
CheshireNoir wrote:

I endedup having to run it as an Administrator. I think, from memory, the process was run an Administrator Command Prompt and then run the Batch file from there.

 

 

You shouldn't have to do run it as an administrator.

ADTPro in Win 10 should run by double-clicking the icon or the .bat file from its folder. 

 

Nor should you have to reduce the default baud rates.  If the interrupts DIP switch is correctly set on the Super Serial Card then ADTPro can bootstrap at 9600 Baud reliably (if there are errors you can increase the "pacing (interval)" parameter to 200 from 150.  

Afterwards, image transfers can go at the default speed of 115,200 baud.

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YMMV

I found I could only run it as described :-)]

It did, however, run fine at the full 115,200 speed.

Cheers!

 

Chesh

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Good afternoon everyone,  I

Good afternoon everyone, 

 

I just realized last night that I have reply messages to my thread here so I have been trying all the suggestions.

 

So I have always been able to get ADTPro to load up via the serial connection.  I can get on there to format the disks and what not, but what I can't get it to do is actually load up the directory from the windows 10 machine of disks, I get the "HOST TIMEOUT" error after about three seconds of it trying.  I have a Windows XP laptop I tried to setup the required JAVA runtime environment on to try out that machine, but since its XP I can't get a working download of the JRE to get it to install, as they have dropped off support for XP.

I tried playing with several options on it.  The serial will load up the audio client, so I tried that and via audio, I could get it to display the directory when I selected "RECEIVE" from the ADTPro menu, but it would always crash trying to pull the .DSK file off.

 

I am kinda stumped as to what to try at this point.  I am typing this out on a mac, so i am going to try that next.  I did verify that I have the latest FTDI drivers for the USB/Serial adaptor.  I am using the cables from retrofloppy.com.  I am using the DB25 to DB9 connector, then the DB9 to USB. The Apple Super Serial card is in slot 2, and I believe it is set up as the picture indicates and the jumper block is set to "TERMINAL".  I can verify the jumper settings if someone can give them to me.  To me, it seems like it just can't ping back to the host computer to get it to send the directory list.  I dunno what I am doing wrong.  Any suggestions as to why ADTPro can send its bootstrapping all day but not the directory or actual disks in the directory, it would be a lot of help.

I work for a record label, and we have a band that is wanting to use this Apple IIe to write a program that they can include as a track on their next EP release that has a simple program that people can load via the cassette port.  The program is going to be an Applesoft Basic thing that has graphics and plays along with their debut album and the EP.

We also have an ImageWriter II that works and we want to get it going and use this comptuer again as an actual word processor and stuff.  

 

Thanks for the help everyone.  

 

 

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Also I am using the latest

Also I am using the latest ADTPro 2.1.0 release.  

 

I also have a bunch of original games and stuff in their boxes if anyone is interested.  Sierra games and stuff like that. 

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If one of the DIP switches is

If one of the DIP switches is set wrong, it could prevent the Apple IIe from sending the command back throught the serial cables to the Windows host for the directory listing?  I feel like this is the tree to bark up, but I wanted some verification on how to set the SSC up properly.

 

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I just tried it on my MacBook

I just tried it on my MacBook Pro as well, exact same results. I tried slowing down the baud rate to 19200, and the pause interval to 250, then 500, then 1000. ADTPro could not pull the directory off of the Mac either.

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Here's the FTDI converter I use

Here's the FTDI Serial/USB converter I use and with great success;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313482840858/

Certainly not the cheapest but definately a reliable unit.  Hope it helps you.

We're practically neighbors, BTW.

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macnoyd wrote:Here's the FTDI
macnoyd wrote:

Here's the FTDI Serial/USB converter I use and with great success;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313482840858/

Certainly not the cheapest but definately a reliable unit.  Hope it helps you.

We're practically neighbors, BTW.

ha! I have that exact same cable at work for talking to my old fire alarm panels. I'm going to grab that today and see if I can make that one work.  

 

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A few pointers i ran into. 

A few pointers i ran into.  select your shared folder before you start connectiing and you cannot change the transfer folder you assign after you are already connected.   not sure if this was your issue but once you have connected you can't switch teh shared folder around again.. you have to disconnect, reshare the shared folder and reconnect wirth ADT pro..  i trial and error on this over a few hours and now I can xfer files with ease.....

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absolutely interested...

absolutely interested... always interested in new games. :)  as for the cable i use on windows 10.. i bought the one from this place and its been fine for me.https://retrofloppy.com/products/#USB   the black and gold cable..  

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Dan in Vermont wrote:To me,
Dan in Vermont wrote:

To me, it seems like it just can't ping back to the host computer to get it to send the directory list.  I dunno what I am doing wrong.  Any suggestions as to why ADTPro can send its bootstrapping all day but not the directory or actual disks in the directory, it would be a lot of help.

 

 

If you can boostrap successfully but then ADTPro on the Apple II can't "find" anything on the host computer, both PC and Mac, then I strongly suspect you have a faulty serial cable.

On Boostrap, ADTPro on the host PC force feeds the Apple II the data it needs to both load ProDOS, and then ADTPro itself onto the Apple II. 

 

But if the Apple II can't talk to the host pc, there's probably a bad wire in the serial cable.  Not the USB-Serial cable, but the serial cable itself.  Either that or your Super Serial Card has something wrong with it. 

 

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So I tried the white and blue

So I tried the white and blue usb to serial cable that has the lights on each side that tells you the traffic, and only one light lit.  I could boot strap and all of that just fine, and I tried the directory trick.  I didn't repeat the process on the mac, I just tried the windows 10 machine but I figured the outcome would be the same.

 

I think I might have narrowed it down to the SSC or the cable.  The cable is new so in theory it should be good, and then we would have the apple iie board and the SSC, or the settings on the DIP switches and terminal block.  I'm going to take the apple iie apart tomorrow afternoon and clean it all and double check the switches and stuff.  I might work the switches back and forth to make sure that they are doing what they are supposed to do, and I will report back.

 

How hard are SSCs to come by these days?

 

Thanks, 

 

Dan in Vermont (St. Albans)

 

 

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I took apart the Apple iie,

I took apart the Apple iie, and cleaned the socket and the SSC really well. I made sure that the terminal block was at terminal pointed down, and flipped the DIP switches back and forth and into position again.  The socket kinda looked like the contacts were dingy, so I polished them. Put it back together but I'm going to give it time to dry overnight from the light alcohol I used to clean it up. I'm going to try it tomorrow and update. 

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Dan in Vermont wrote:I took
Dan in Vermont wrote:

I took apart the Apple iie, and cleaned the socket and the SSC really well. I made sure that the terminal block was at terminal pointed down, and flipped the DIP switches back and forth and into position again.  The socket kinda looked like the contacts were dingy, so I polished them. Put it back together but I'm going to give it time to dry overnight from the light alcohol I used to clean it up. I'm going to try it tomorrow and update. 

 

If your RS-232 indicator shows that either the TxD or RxD (depending on the point of view of the indicator) lights up on bootstrap mode tells me that the cable and SSC work fine for RxD (received data).

If you get no lights on the RS-232 indicator when the Apple tries to fetch a directory from the host PC that tells you that there's something wrong with the TxD (transmitted data) out of the SSC.  It's unlikely that it's a SSC problem - they're pretty robust cards.  My money is on a faulty serial cable.

 

You should get a multimeter and check for continuity on the cable to the various pins.  That's a lot easier to do than to go SSC shopping.

Plus, it's an easy fix if that's actually the issue.

 

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Have you tried a breakout box?

I think baldrick is dead on (as usual).  First test for continutiy on same pins at each end of the cable. If that fails, it is time to replace the cable or get more information.  A simple RS-232 breakout box can provide feedback on what the RS232 is actually doing.  Is it really sending data in both directions?  A breakout box will tell you that by LEDs.  You may also need a couple of DB9-DB25 adapters to "move the pins" from your USB-DB9 connectors to the DB25s found on most breakout boxes. This will eliminate the guessing and tell you exactly what is happening.  You should run the jumper wires "straight through" on the breakout - pin 2 to pin 2, pin 3 - pin 3 etc and observe the LEDs on the breakout box.

 

If the speed and other communications settings match at both ends and the "pins match" to connect the devices, then RS232 should communicate.  A breakout box will also let out "move pins" for custom cable design. Since RS232 is passive, we don't need to change timing or voltage, all we need to do is "move the pins around" using jumper wires to make different devices talk to each other. If you have a bad or "funky" cable, the breakout box can help detect that, because pin 3 never lights up for instance. Sometimes we need to swap the transmit and receive (crossing pins 2 & 3) to create a null modem design etc.  Each end also has way of asserting a pin to say "hold on while I catch up" and then saying "ok, to send me data now", unfortunately, there are several different pin combinations used to manage flow control and breakout boxes are frequently used to figure these out between devices.  The DB25 design provided more options for flow control and the DB9 consoloidate the options onto fewer pins. You probalby will not need to move any pins for ADT-Pro. 

 

Here is an example of what to get. I saw some on ebay also.  Product plus shipping seems to be $25-$30. I just searched "RS232 Breakout"

https://www.amazon.com/RS232-DB25-BREAK-OUT-BOX-TESTER/dp/B005H46XS2/

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So I got it to work after all

So I got it to work after all!  I think it had to do with either the DIP switches on the SSC card, or the card itself or the socket #2 just needed cleaning.

 

I took off the card and cleaned it thoroughly with IPA and let it dry overnight.  I also rocked the DIP switches back and forth on it unitl I felt that they were "switching clean" if that makes any sense.  I work on a lot of 70s and 80s electronics at my job, and the DIP switches on some of this industrial equipment get cloggy sometimes.  

 

After all the cleaning and switch working, I put the card back in and tried to use the black and gold USB to Serial cable from Retro Floppy.  It worked!  What I noticed is that when proper two way communication works between the Apple IIe and the host computer, the Speediboot option works instead of just sending PRODOS and then ADTPro Serial Client.  If you only have one way traffic, you can totally send both of these over but you won't the ability to do the directory or actually sending disks over.  

 

I have a couple of questions about it though now that I have it working.  If I set up another super serial card in the slot 1 on the motherboard, am I going to be able to leave the one I have in slot 2 to keep ADTPro working?  Now that I have it up and going, I'd like to be able to use the printer on it but that is setup for it to have been in slot 1, and I know that there has been some talk about ADTPro is going to use the first SSC it sees, starting with slot 0 and then moving up.  If I was to put the extra SSC in slot 3, could I use it for the printer there?  I know that there is some issues using certain cards in certain slots.

 

Thanks for the help everyone!  Just to recap, the black USB to Serial cable from Retro Floppy does work with Windows 10 using FTDI drivers.

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AFAIK, you can change the

AFAIK, you can change the serial card/port in the ADTpro configuration. It defaults to the lowest number, but you should be able to go into the options in ADTPro on your Apple and switch to a different SSC/slot.

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Multiple SSC

You can certainly put your printer configured SSC in slot 1 and your ADT Pro Comm configured SSC in slot 2.  You will need to tell ADT Pro which one to use per the above suggestion.  Lots of //e machines had a printer in slot 1 and modem or SSC to external modem in slot 2 back in the day.  Avoid using slot 3 for anythting because the 80 column video already logically consumes this memory space. 

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