What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple with CPM card

22 posts / 0 new
Last post
Online
Last seen: 25 min 50 sec ago
Joined: Oct 9 2011 - 12:54
Posts: 1296
What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple with CPM card

OK now that the ALS CPM card is up and running with CPM 3

I now have to get software that I can run on it.

I know in the old days people just sent the files over serial. These days I think we have more options.

So first, this is on an Apple II, not plus or IIe so I can't run ProDos above 1.1/1.2.

I have a super serial card, CFFA3000 and a couple of Disk II drives.

Is there an easy way with the CFFA3000, I don't mind having a different USB memory stick for CPM because I have an extension cable for outside the case access. The super serial would be the most inconvenient because where the machine is to be located I have to unplug and replug in the serial cable when I need it.

It will be nice to play some CPM games eventually and it also removed the temptation to put disk drives on my Sol-20 and mess with personality modules so I can boot CPM on it.

Thanks,
Corey

Offline
Last seen: 4 years 11 months ago
Joined: Apr 10 2006 - 20:01
Posts: 1013
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

Is there an easy way with the CFFA3000

Yes, you copy the .dsk images on to your USB or CF card and plug it into the CFFA3000. You can copy them back off again to move files the other way. What am I missing?

k4lmp's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: Sep 13 2012 - 21:22
Posts: 202
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

I tried to boot CPM off of a CFFA3000, and couldn't make it work. Is it possible to do, and I am just missing something?

Offline
Last seen: 4 years 11 months ago
Joined: Apr 10 2006 - 20:01
Posts: 1013
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

It works to boot CP/M off a CFFA3000 if you are using the Disk II emulation and have the card either physically located in slot 6 (and lose SmartPort drives) or logically locate the Disk II emulation in slot 6 from the card physically inserted elsewhere. There are ways to have larger partition support, but that's much more complex. Sticking to a stock Disk II setup is simplest.

speedyG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: Nov 16 2011 - 07:45
Posts: 2494
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

OK now that the ALS CPM card is up and running with CPM 3
I now have to get software that I can run on it.

.....It will be nice to play some CPM games eventually.......

Corey

Hello Corey,

well it seems i have ro destroy one illusion....
You will get nearly no game running with CP/M.......
CP/M was upmost used for commercial and scientific usage....
for commercial usage there was DBase....
and several other officeprograms like Wordstar, Multiplan....
and for scientific usage there were the different kinds of programming languages:
muLISP, LISP, Prolog and some other derivates for modelling artificial intelligence,
COBOL for commercial programs,
C, C++, Fortran and about 10 different kinds of PASCAL ( mostly used Turbo Pascal and MT+ Pascal ) for scientific programs.... ( for example most programs witten for LABs and automotive have been written in C or in Pascal ),
about 6 or 7 different versions of BASIC including GBasic for graphics usage....
PL1 one of the oldest Programming languages,
last not least the very first programs used for CAD and Robotics have also been made with CP/M.....

so in general CP/M was used upmost for programming applications for own use....
and most of them have been compilers.... only very few of the programming languages have been interpreters that could be used for "ready to run" tryouts...
only in commercial use there have been "ready to use" programs available .... in most cases textprograms and databases....

sincerely speedyG

apple2lives's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 8 months ago
Joined: Feb 17 2013 - 23:43
Posts: 36
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

The only game that I even ran under CP/M was Colossal Cavern. This is one of the oldest adventure games out there. It was recompiled for many OS platforms. I spent many hours in college trying to navigate the maze. I would have to fire-up my KAYPRO to see if I still have a copy.

OK, here is a loaded trivia question; what does CP/M stand for????????

speedyG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: Nov 16 2011 - 07:45
Posts: 2494
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

The only game that I even ran under CP/M was Colossal Cavern. This is one of the oldest adventure games out there. It was recompiled for many OS platforms. I spent many hours in college trying to navigate the maze. I would have to fire-up my KAYPRO to see if I still have a copy.

OK, here is a loaded trivia question; what does CP/M stand for????????

First: not to forget the very classic ASCII version of "Lode Runner"........
second.... i´ll leave it for the community...
proposal: solution by pm....

MarkO's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 18 hours ago
Joined: Dec 10 2011 - 16:26
Posts: 679
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

The only game that I even ran under CP/M was Colossal Cavern. This is one of the oldest adventure games out there. It was recompiled for many OS platforms. I spent many hours in college trying to navigate the maze. I would have to fire-up my KAYPRO to see if I still have a copy.

OK, here is a loaded trivia question; what does CP/M stand for????????

Control Program for Microprocessors.. IIRC

Which was sold by Digital Research... Trivia Question... What was the Original Name of "Digital Research"???

magnusfalkirk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: Feb 18 2007 - 11:46
Posts: 273
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...


Control Program for Microprocessors.. IIRC

Which was sold by Digital Research... Trivia Question... What was the Original Name of "Digital Research"???

I had to cheat and use Google to find out. Intergalactic Digital Research

Online
Last seen: 25 min 50 sec ago
Joined: Oct 9 2011 - 12:54
Posts: 1296
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

The only game that I even ran under CP/M was Colossal Cavern. This is one of the oldest adventure games out there. It was recompiled for many OS platforms. I spent many hours in college trying to navigate the maze. I would have to fire-up my KAYPRO to see if I still have a copy.

OK, here is a loaded trivia question; what does CP/M stand for????????

First: not to forget the very classic ASCII version of "Lode Runner"........
second.... i´ll leave it for the community...
proposal: solution by pm....

I mean the text games. There were plenty. I'm not a giant arcade game person these days. It's the really retro stuff I like.
As for te CFFA, I guess I'll play more with it and see how it goes.

Cheers,
Corey

MarkO's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 18 hours ago
Joined: Dec 10 2011 - 16:26
Posts: 679
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...


Control Program for Microprocessors.. IIRC

Which was sold by Digital Research... Trivia Question... What was the Original Name of "Digital Research"???

I had to cheat and use Google to find out. Intergalactic Digital Research

I am a big fan of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy and in 1986 bought the first Four books in Paperback while in Canada ( Printed in the UK, much nicer than the Silly US Covers ).. When I heard the Original Name of Digital Research, I just about fell over Laughing....

apple2lives's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 8 months ago
Joined: Feb 17 2013 - 23:43
Posts: 36
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

What does CP/M stand for???

I asked this lame question to see what answers would be returned.

I first used CP/M in 1979 on a IMSAI system. At that time CP/M stood for Control Program/Monitor. This is the definition that has stuck with me for several decades.

A few months ago I found a manual for my Microsoft Premium Softcard. CP/M was defined in the manual as Control Program for Microprocessors. This was a kick in the head and made no sense.

What is even funnier is that I work with Digital Research in evaluating DR-DOS for the Panasonic computer line. The guys at Digital Research referred to CP/M as Control Program/Monitor.....

Any hoot; this is why I asked.

At least the answer to the ultimate question is still 42:)

speedyG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: Nov 16 2011 - 07:45
Posts: 2494
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

Hello to all together,
maybe both answers are just specific and correct in very special "taste" depending from where the system was loaded...
if it was loaded from ROM it maybe claimed to be "Monitor" and when loaded from Disk it may claim itself for "Microcomputers"..... if it´s loaded from ROM its very specific attached to a typ of computer, while if it´s loaded from disk it´s more "general typ for different systems" ( i.e. "microcomputers" depending to inbound driver ).....
therefor "42" might be the best answer.....
in my first computer ( the ZX81 ) it was "42", because it had no disks....

i started with CP/M at the Apple II with softcard, when first exploring history of programming languages like PL1 and Fortran and
later while searching for compilers that can generate fast code for realtime applications and
then later experimenting with other compilers and interpreters while experimenting with artificial inteligence....
and besides working as freelancer with everyday jobs related to databases like those running on IBM38.....

speedyG

Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Joined: Sep 12 2011 - 23:19
Posts: 17
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

I use ADTPro to create floppies from CP/M .dsk/.do images. If you get the CFFA3000 working, that'd be great too.

The problem I run into is that you need Apple II CP/M .dsk/.do images; there is a lot of CP/M code available that is not packaged for the Apple II with CP/M card (http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/).

To create my own .dsk images I use http://www.moria.de/~michael/cpmtools/. Tip: The argument you need to pass to -f is apple-do.

If you decide you want to write your own CP/M code (8080 or z80) via cross-assembly, then I'd take a look at http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/as/.

apple2lives's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 8 months ago
Joined: Feb 17 2013 - 23:43
Posts: 36
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

I have a Microsoft Premium CP/M card installed in slot-0 of my IIe. The CFFA3000 is installed in slot-7. I tried to import the CP/M boot disk image into the CFFA3000 but the CFFA3000 took a fit. If you get yours working, please share the procedure with me.

speedyG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: Nov 16 2011 - 07:45
Posts: 2494
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

hello apple2lives,
usually the softcard should be in slot 4 ( default ) or 5 ( alternate ) and the CFFA in slot 5( default ) or slot 6 ( alternate )....
sincerely speedyG

MarkO's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 18 hours ago
Joined: Dec 10 2011 - 16:26
Posts: 679
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

I have a Microsoft Premium CP/M card installed in slot-0 of my IIe. The CFFA3000 is installed in slot-7. I tried to import the CP/M boot disk image into the CFFA3000 but the CFFA3000 took a fit. If you get yours working, please share the procedure with me.

Which one is Slot-0 in a ][e???

I always placed my AE Z80 Card in Slot 5.

speedyG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: Nov 16 2011 - 07:45
Posts: 2494
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

Hello MarkO,
i guess he´s talking about the auxiliary slot which is determined for the 80-col card.... i just wonder if he hasn´t destroyed the card or the slot....
speedyG

apple2lives's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 8 months ago
Joined: Feb 17 2013 - 23:43
Posts: 36
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

I often refer to the auxiliary slot as slot-0.

The Microsoft Premium Softcard is only for the IIe. This card is installed in the auxiliary slot and acts as an 80-column card or as a Z80 co-processor for CP/M.

The system also has a Transwarp and CFFA3000 installed but booting is not a problem. The cards all work in harmony and the system functions properly.

I just like to know if there is special magic to import a image of the CP/M boot disk in to the CFFA3000. I have run in to a brick wall trying to do this. I have imported many other disk images but they were in DOS33 and PRODOS formats.

IMAGE(http://www.star9.x10.mx/my2e.jpg)

speedyG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: Nov 16 2011 - 07:45
Posts: 2494
Re: What is the best way to get CPM software on to the Apple ...

That´s rather easy to answer...
because CP/M has own disk Format you´d have to use the CFFA in "disk emulation" mode....
( i.e. the disks must be loaded as diskimages to the emulation as disk 1 ( A: ) and disk 2 ( b: ) )
Disk 1 => system / Boot Disk / CP/M Master
Disk 2 => Utilities / Program Disk / Data Disk / Wordstar / DBase / Compiler Disk .......

thanks for explenation.... i´ve seen that many CP/M Card´s ... but can´t know them all......
I have by myself 5 different versions of them.....

speedyG

Offline
Last seen: 8 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 27 2020 - 06:40
Posts: 2
CPM version 3 for Apple 2

Following this discussion with interest.  I am trying to run CPM using a Citech CPM module on an Apple IIc (NOT a IIc Plus).  I have the card but can't fins a disk image of CPM version 3 for a 5.25 inch 140 disk (I don't have an 800k 3.5 inch disk).  Since the card came installed in the Apple IIc there must be version of CPm 3 for the Apple IIc on a 140k disk.  Any help greatly appreciated.

Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 4 min ago
Joined: Jan 1 2020 - 15:56
Posts: 25
CP/M

What about the CP/M Disks on the Ascii Express site?  They are 5.25" format.  http://asciiexpress.net/diskserver/  scroll down the disk list to the CP/M section.

 

There seems to be an Applicard Boot, a CP/M Boot, and a CP/M GW-Basic disk there.  Not sure if they would work for your card or not though but you could give it a try.  The site is simple to use to make disks on your Apple using the casette ports.

Log in or register to post comments